Haven't had time yet to try it out.
Brian
Brian
> >I just thought of something - When camber is set for hotter inside temps,
is
> >there an ACTUAL increase in performance in real terms? It sounds good on
> >paper, but has anyone factually determined that there is a difference?
I'm
> >wondering if a neutral camber setup to eliminate the left pull would be
just
> >as effective as the suggested setup.
> On a short-medium length track, you are going to need that negative camber
> on the right-front. Set it to 0 and see. It will push like a very pushy
thing.. :)
A: Yes it has.
B: The camber isn't the cause of the "left pull." Asymetrical weight
balance, tire diameter, castor and toe are.
C: Since what you are trying to do is circle to the left as fast as possible
"left pull" is * desirable. *
Make this experiement, take a perfectly cylindrical object, like an oatmeal
box, and try to push it around a circular path.
Now do the same thing with a conical object, like a styrofoam coffee cup.
You will note a HUGE difference. The oatmeal box only has one single point
on its width at which it is simply following the circle. ALL other points on
the box are scrubbing against the surface. Your tires, a: don't like that,
b: are using up some of their potential for generating cornering forces.
You'll note that the slightest nudge of the coffee cup sends it cheerfully
rolling in circles.
Ask yourself THIS question. Why don't the set the camber of the banked
tracks to "nuetral."
KFG
-Larry
> > I just thought of something - When camber is set for hotter inside
temps,
> is
> > there an ACTUAL increase in performance in real terms? It sounds good on
> > paper, but has anyone factually determined that there is a difference?
I'm
> > wondering if a neutral camber setup to eliminate the left pull would be
> just
> > as effective as the suggested setup.
> > Haven't had time yet to try it out.
> A: Yes it has.
> B: The camber isn't the cause of the "left pull." Asymetrical weight
> balance, tire diameter, castor and toe are.
> C: Since what you are trying to do is circle to the left as fast as
possible
> "left pull" is * desirable. *
> Make this experiement, take a perfectly cylindrical object, like an
oatmeal
> box, and try to push it around a circular path.
> Now do the same thing with a conical object, like a styrofoam coffee cup.
> You will note a HUGE difference. The oatmeal box only has one single point
> on its width at which it is simply following the circle. ALL other points
on
> the box are scrubbing against the surface. Your tires, a: don't like that,
> b: are using up some of their potential for generating cornering forces.
> You'll note that the slightest nudge of the coffee cup sends it cheerfully
> rolling in circles.
> Ask yourself THIS question. Why don't the set the camber of the banked
> tracks to "nuetral."
> KFG
Yes, I was trying to determine if the sim itself properly emulated the
real-world physics.
If that's true, then why does neutral camber track straight and positive
left and negative right track left?
Absolutely
There is another factor involved there - centrifugal force.
Todd
Also asemetrical camber settings will certanly improve performance on ovals.
Alex
Brian
> Also asemetrical camber settings will certanly improve performance on
ovals.
> Alex
> > I just thought of something - When camber is set for hotter inside
temps,
> is
> > there an ACTUAL increase in performance in real terms? It sounds good on
> > paper, but has anyone factually determined that there is a difference?
I'm
> > wondering if a neutral camber setup to eliminate the left pull would be
> just
> > as effective as the suggested setup.
> > Haven't had time yet to try it out.
> > Brian
We agree that the pull is inherent to the setup.
We agree that the setup is what helps us get around ovals faster.
We agree in your situation (no FF I think) that the pull is apparently a
bigger issue than those with certain FF setups.
My suggestion is to go out at the track of your choice and practice with the
<fast> setup and after warming the tires up try this:
Imagine that straight forward steering is actually about 2-3 degress to the
right of center on your wheel.
My next door neighbor (friend, racing, fishing buddy) has a non FF wheel and
was bad struggling with the isuue like yourself and I told him this tip and
it helped him get through ok, seemed thinking that actually made it easier
to wrap his mind around the concept. Now that we have tackled that, we have
begun adjusting the settings in our cars, which brings up the next issue===>
As you begin to play with springs (especially, but not exclusively) we have
begun to notice that the effect is greatly noticable under acceleration,
coasting, and braking. That is, with certain setups you better let off the
wheel when you let off the gas because the right bias you're giving your
steering wheel is no longer needed the instant you lift and you're turning
right! We've noticed this more with non "stock" setups. I can't remember
where I read the hint, but the docs mention certain settings affect the car
differently under acceleration and under braking.
Try here, look under Nascar 4 from the left menu and look at the setup guide
(be advised ita about 70 pages long), it is a great insight into the
parameters into setting up the cars in N4. http://www.sascar.com (No I'm not
a member of this site, but was put onto it about a week ago, d'loaded the
guide and have found it very, very insightful as to what to look for when
tweaking setups)
Best of luck to ya, hope to see you on the track sometime,
edb
In addition, you're right about easing off the accelerator going into
turns - the car veers to the right. I thought I was the only one who was
experiencing this. Your explanation makes sense.
Bottom line - The only way I'm going to really enjoy this sim is by getting
a better wheel and, oh, yes, by downloading Papy's patch which will turn
those killer robots into civilized drivers.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Brian
> We agree that the pull is inherent to the setup.
> We agree that the setup is what helps us get around ovals faster.
> We agree in your situation (no FF I think) that the pull is apparently a
> bigger issue than those with certain FF setups.
> My suggestion is to go out at the track of your choice and practice with
the
> <fast> setup and after warming the tires up try this:
> Imagine that straight forward steering is actually about 2-3 degress to
the
> right of center on your wheel.
> My next door neighbor (friend, racing, fishing buddy) has a non FF wheel
and
> was bad struggling with the isuue like yourself and I told him this tip
and
> it helped him get through ok, seemed thinking that actually made it easier
> to wrap his mind around the concept. Now that we have tackled that, we
have
> begun adjusting the settings in our cars, which brings up the next
issue===>
> As you begin to play with springs (especially, but not exclusively) we
have
> begun to notice that the effect is greatly noticable under acceleration,
> coasting, and braking. That is, with certain setups you better let off the
> wheel when you let off the gas because the right bias you're giving your
> steering wheel is no longer needed the instant you lift and you're turning
> right! We've noticed this more with non "stock" setups. I can't remember
> where I read the hint, but the docs mention certain settings affect the
car
> differently under acceleration and under braking.
> Try here, look under Nascar 4 from the left menu and look at the setup
guide
> (be advised ita about 70 pages long), it is a great insight into the
> parameters into setting up the cars in N4. http://www.sascar.com (No I'm
not
> a member of this site, but was put onto it about a week ago, d'loaded the
> guide and have found it very, very insightful as to what to look for when
> tweaking setups)
> Best of luck to ya, hope to see you on the track sometime,
> edb
> > I just thought of something - When camber is set for hotter inside
temps,
> is
> > there an ACTUAL increase in performance in real terms? It sounds good on
> > paper, but has anyone factually determined that there is a difference?
I'm
> > wondering if a neutral camber setup to eliminate the left pull would be
> just
> > as effective as the suggested setup.
> > Haven't had time yet to try it out.
> > Brian
-Phasor
> >I just thought of something - When camber is set for hotter inside temps,
is
> >there an ACTUAL increase in performance in real terms? It sounds good on
> >paper, but has anyone factually determined that there is a difference?
I'm
> >wondering if a neutral camber setup to eliminate the left pull would be
just
> >as effective as the suggested setup.
> On a short-medium length track, you are going to need that negative camber
> on the right-front. Set it to 0 and see. It will push like a very pushy
thing.. :)
