rec.autos.simulators

by **Larr** » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 00:31:17

Had mine for about 2 days now. Work has kept me from a lot of use, but I've
got about an hour on it and as with any product there is good and bad here.

The good outweighs the bad by a considerable margin :)

The GOOD
------------

Logitech finally got a pedal set right. Heavy, very strongly designed, and
they feel great.

Note - If you are not used to a three-pedal system, you'll go through an
acclamation period. So far, I'm better at hitting the clutch instead of the
brake and running right off the track into the wall :)

The brake has excellent resistance, and is different from the clutch and
gas.

I figure if one wanted to, and didn't care about the clutch, they could move
the brake to the clutch position and leave the center open. Then you'd have
a wide-spaced two-pedal board.

I have no doubt this would void your warranty.

The FF in the wheel is TREMENDOUS! It's a real arm-breaker if you want it
set up that way.

Wheel is extremely smooth and precise. No play in shaft whatsoever. Shifer
seems to work fine. Not sure I dig the gated mode yet.

Adjustable from 200 to 900 deg rotation. Now, you're in for a bit of a
suprise here. On this wheel, it is software controlled, not hardware. You
set it individually for each game. It does not use hard, mechanical stops
for the outer edges of rotation (except the 900 deg mode, which is the limit
of mechanical travel). If you have it set to less than 900 deg, it uses the
power of the FF motors to create the edge. It's quite effective.

Paddle shifters are metal and very strong, with absolute stops. There is no
way you're breaking a switch with these.

The BAD
----------

Ok, my biggest gripe. It has the same 2-clamp system as the DFP, with no
center clamp. WTH are they thinking, especially with FF as strong as it is
in this wheel. At least on this one the clamps reach back a tiny bit
further, and it's not as bad, but if you have a rounded edge desk you'll
still have issues.

The shifter doesn't have this issue. It has a standard center screw-clamp
like the black momo does. I guess the design team didn't talk amongst
themselves on this one. The shifter ain't going anywhere.

Cables - My god the cables. They are coming out of EVERYWHERE! There are 4
different cables coming out from under the wheel. It takes so long to set
up, I feel like I'm actually building a race car :)

As typical with Logitech, the pedal cable is way too short.

Ok, I gotta say it. Yes, I know the shifter has a bunch of buttons but,
only two on the wheel? WTH?

Overall the wheel is so good, it's worth companies investing in
parts/upgrades/mods for it. The first one I'd like to see is a 2-3ft
pigtail assy with a single connector that allows you to put one side of the
pigtail on the wheel permanently, and the otherside the 4 cables hook up to.
Then you could have one simple quick-disconnect for the entire wheel.

Glitches
--------

Not much so far. Only one I've found is NR2003 is completely whacky if the
wheel is set to 900 deg mode. I had to set it back to 240 deg (243 to be
exact is the setting available) to get NR2003 back under control.

Haven't tried GTR2 yet, but I hear it works fine.

-Larry

by **Larr** » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 00:32:44

BTW... The ultimate question...

My score - I'll give it an 8 out of 10. If it had a proper clamping system
for the wheel, and didn't require an octopus coming out the back I'd give it
a 9.9 easily.

Is it worth $300? Hail yes.

-Larry

by **Ronald Stoeh** » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 01:00:26

> BTW... The ultimate question...

> My score - I'll give it an 8 out of 10. If it had a proper clamping system
> for the wheel, and didn't require an octopus coming out the back I'd give it
> a 9.9 easily.

> Is it worth $300? Hail yes.

Thanks for the review about my still not available wheel... ;)

The clamping system and the connections give me two more reasons to finally
build a***pit. The racing chair I already bought is sitting in the corner
for 3 months now.

Is it possible to fix the wheel using a***as it was with the red MOMO?

l8er
ronny

by **Scott B. Huste** » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 04:21:00

Larry,

I pretty much agree with your assessment of the wheel, although I have
not had any problem with the clamping mechanism at all... and with my
driving, I'm sawing on the wheel pretty good. ;)

I really like the pedals. Probably the best pedals I've used outside
ECCI. I like them better than the TSW2 I had.

The FF are very strong. Being torn on FF effects in general, I've
actually hacked the .plr file in GTR2, GTL, and rfactor a whole lot to
reduce forces. I increase rumble strip effects, etc... but I reduce the
wheel grip and other factors a great deal as I don't find them all that
accurate. It could just be a preference thing though. I do find the
wheel very smooth.

The shifter is alright. It's a little short and I don't like the knob,
but the function of it seems fine. I just use the up/down mode though,
not the gate. Since I have a custom dashbox.. and the shifter buttons,
I may even go back to paddles though.

The big negative for me is what you mentioned.. cables. Pedal cable is
too short. It's very tight to reach up behind my desk and back up to
the wheel... I can do it, but It's a bit tight. I have the two cables
from the pedal unit tied together with a wire tie and disconnect them
from the bottom of the wheel and then just put the wheel/shifter to the
side and put the pedal cable by my monitor. I'm a little concerned with
having to unclamp the two wires constantly from the bottom of the wheel
as I don't want to create a short... but I haven't figured out a better
method yet. The space under the wheel for wrapping cable is a good
idea.. but there isn't nearly enough room IMHO. The whole cable thing
is a mess... but all in all, could be worse.

The only glitch I've found so far is when I first plug in the wheel, it
centers off by about 4 or 5 degrees. Simply unplugging and plugging it
back in solves the problem when it goes full 900 degree calibration.
It's weird, but not a major problem at all.

Also, I found editing the .plr entry for the y axis for the throttle is
a must. The throw was much too short and it was listed as .5000 center.
Putting it at 1.0000 gives me the full range of motion on the throttle
and I find the pedals work excellent. With everything about the wheel,
it's the pedals I'm actually most pleased and pleasantly surprised by.

Scott

> Had mine for about 2 days now. Work has kept me from a lot of use, but I've
> got about an hour on it and as with any product there is good and bad here.

> The good outweighs the bad by a considerable margin :)

> The GOOD
> ------------

> Logitech finally got a pedal set right. Heavy, very strongly designed, and
> they feel great.

> Note - If you are not used to a three-pedal system, you'll go through an
> acclamation period. So far, I'm better at hitting the clutch instead of the
> brake and running right off the track into the wall :)

> The brake has excellent resistance, and is different from the clutch and
> gas.

> I figure if one wanted to, and didn't care about the clutch, they could move
> the brake to the clutch position and leave the center open. Then you'd have
> a wide-spaced two-pedal board.

> I have no doubt this would void your warranty.

> The FF in the wheel is TREMENDOUS! It's a real arm-breaker if you want it
> set up that way.

> Wheel is extremely smooth and precise. No play in shaft whatsoever. Shifer
> seems to work fine. Not sure I dig the gated mode yet.

> Adjustable from 200 to 900 deg rotation. Now, you're in for a bit of a
> suprise here. On this wheel, it is software controlled, not hardware. You
> set it individually for each game. It does not use hard, mechanical stops
> for the outer edges of rotation (except the 900 deg mode, which is the limit
> of mechanical travel). If you have it set to less than 900 deg, it uses the
> power of the FF motors to create the edge. It's quite effective.

> Paddle shifters are metal and very strong, with absolute stops. There is no
> way you're breaking a switch with these.

> The BAD
> ----------

> Ok, my biggest gripe. It has the same 2-clamp system as the DFP, with no
> center clamp. WTH are they thinking, especially with FF as strong as it is
> in this wheel. At least on this one the clamps reach back a tiny bit
> further, and it's not as bad, but if you have a rounded edge desk you'll
> still have issues.

> The shifter doesn't have this issue. It has a standard center screw-clamp
> like the black momo does. I guess the design team didn't talk amongst
> themselves on this one. The shifter ain't going anywhere.

> Cables - My god the cables. They are coming out of EVERYWHERE! There are 4
> different cables coming out from under the wheel. It takes so long to set
> up, I feel like I'm actually building a race car :)

> As typical with Logitech, the pedal cable is way too short.

> Ok, I gotta say it. Yes, I know the shifter has a bunch of buttons but,
> only two on the wheel? WTH?

> Overall the wheel is so good, it's worth companies investing in
> parts/upgrades/mods for it. The first one I'd like to see is a 2-3ft
> pigtail assy with a single connector that allows you to put one side of the
> pigtail on the wheel permanently, and the otherside the 4 cables hook up to.
> Then you could have one simple quick-disconnect for the entire wheel.

> Glitches
> --------

> Not much so far. Only one I've found is NR2003 is completely whacky if the
> wheel is set to 900 deg mode. I had to set it back to 240 deg (243 to be
> exact is the setting available) to get NR2003 back under control.

> Haven't tried GTR2 yet, but I hear it works fine.

> -Larry

--
Scott B. Husted?
http://www.RacingHistorian.com
ICQ# - 4395450 | AIM - Hylander12871 | Yahoo - sbhusted

by **Larr** » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 04:48:41

Yes. There are two of them in fact.

Problem is, the cheap turkeys didn't provide a template like they did with
the Momo :(

-Larry

>> BTW... The ultimate question...

>> My score - I'll give it an 8 out of 10. If it had a proper clamping
>> system for the wheel, and didn't require an octopus coming out the back
>> I'd give it a 9.9 easily.

>> Is it worth $300? Hail yes.

> Thanks for the review about my still not available wheel... ;)

> The clamping system and the connections give me two more reasons to
> finally
> build a***pit. The racing chair I already bought is sitting in the
> corner
> for 3 months now.

> Is it possible to fix the wheel using a***as it was with the red MOMO?

> l8er
> ronny

by **Larr** » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 04:54:33

It's mostly those of us with rounded edge desks that have the issue.

If I could find an external pad with just a bunch of buttons on it, I'd
probably put the shifter in the closet.

A point to bring up here. When you are setting up the wheel, or plugging it
in, make sure it's mounted to the desktop. You do not want the thing
sitting on the desk, worse yet wheel-down, when you do do. It does full 900
deg calibration swings and would be a lot like trying to catch a pissed-off
cat.

Kinda like this one:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tbZ2E3n7iu8

Ah, I see the throttle problem from the Momo has carried on to this one.

As someone else posted here (and worked for me), set and calibrate the BRAKE
first, then do the throttle. Seems to fix that issue for whatever reason.

- Show quoted text -

> Scott

>> Had mine for about 2 days now. Work has kept me from a lot of use, but
>> I've got about an hour on it and as with any product there is good and
>> bad here.

>> The good outweighs the bad by a considerable margin :)

>> The GOOD
>> ------------

>> Logitech finally got a pedal set right. Heavy, very strongly designed,
>> and they feel great.

>> Note - If you are not used to a three-pedal system, you'll go through an
>> acclamation period. So far, I'm better at hitting the clutch instead of
>> the brake and running right off the track into the wall :)

>> The brake has excellent resistance, and is different from the clutch and
>> gas.

>> I figure if one wanted to, and didn't care about the clutch, they could
>> move the brake to the clutch position and leave the center open. Then
>> you'd have a wide-spaced two-pedal board.

>> I have no doubt this would void your warranty.

>> The FF in the wheel is TREMENDOUS! It's a real arm-breaker if you want
>> it set up that way.

>> Wheel is extremely smooth and precise. No play in shaft whatsoever.
>> Shifer seems to work fine. Not sure I dig the gated mode yet.

>> Adjustable from 200 to 900 deg rotation. Now, you're in for a bit of a
>> suprise here. On this wheel, it is software controlled, not hardware.
>> You set it individually for each game. It does not use hard, mechanical
>> stops for the outer edges of rotation (except the 900 deg mode, which is
>> the limit of mechanical travel). If you have it set to less than 900
>> deg, it uses the power of the FF motors to create the edge. It's quite
>> effective.

>> Paddle shifters are metal and very strong, with absolute stops. There is
>> no way you're breaking a switch with these.

>> The BAD
>> ----------

>> Ok, my biggest gripe. It has the same 2-clamp system as the DFP, with no
>> center clamp. WTH are they thinking, especially with FF as strong as it
>> is in this wheel. At least on this one the clamps reach back a tiny bit
>> further, and it's not as bad, but if you have a rounded edge desk you'll
>> still have issues.

>> The shifter doesn't have this issue. It has a standard center
>> screw-clamp like the black momo does. I guess the design team didn't
>> talk amongst themselves on this one. The shifter ain't going anywhere.

>> Cables - My god the cables. They are coming out of EVERYWHERE! There
>> are 4 different cables coming out from under the wheel. It takes so long
>> to set up, I feel like I'm actually building a race car :)

>> As typical with Logitech, the pedal cable is way too short.

>> Ok, I gotta say it. Yes, I know the shifter has a bunch of buttons but,
>> only two on the wheel? WTH?

>> Overall the wheel is so good, it's worth companies investing in
>> parts/upgrades/mods for it. The first one I'd like to see is a 2-3ft
>> pigtail assy with a single connector that allows you to put one side of
>> the pigtail on the wheel permanently, and the otherside the 4 cables hook
>> up to. Then you could have one simple quick-disconnect for the entire
>> wheel.

>> Glitches
>> --------

>> Not much so far. Only one I've found is NR2003 is completely whacky if
>> the wheel is set to 900 deg mode. I had to set it back to 240 deg (243
>> to be exact is the setting available) to get NR2003 back under control.

>> Haven't tried GTR2 yet, but I hear it works fine.

>> -Larry

> --
> Scott B. Husted?
> http://www.RacingHistorian.com
> ICQ# - 4395450 | AIM - Hylander12871 | Yahoo - sbhusted

by **Dave** » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 05:25:03

:-)

Perfect comparison.

I had my DFP loose on my desk one day when I rebooted the computer. Big
mistake. Wheel bounced off onto the floor thrashing all over the place. I
thought it was broken for good but managed to open it up and fix it
eventually with a last ditch, really hard, crank of the wheel.

--
David G Fisher

by **Steve Blankenshi** » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:49:26

Look on the install CD. Believe there's a template there, guessing a PDF.

SB

BTW, the wheel rotation stops were also done in software on the DFP since
the 4.60 drivers. It had two hardware modes for PS2 (which it was targeted
at), but I never used anything but the 900 degree mode with software stops,
usually at 540.

by **Phil Newnha** » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:26:03

> A point to bring up here. When you are setting up the wheel, or plugging it
> in, make sure it's mounted to the desktop. You do not want the thing
> sitting on the desk, worse yet wheel-down, when you do do. It does full 900
> deg calibration swings and would be a lot like trying to catch a pissed-off
> cat.

> Kinda like this one:

> http://youtube.com/watch?v=tbZ2E3n7iu8

My wheel does that - I kept the Thrustmaster RGT. *Really* annoying.
I've figured out how to solve all the other problems I've had with it
though, and I'm finding it really excellent in Richard Burns Rally. I'm
still crashing a lot, of course :) In any case I don't have the UK
equivalent of 300 bucks to spend on the G25.

--
Phil

http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/31307.html

by **Larr** » Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:50:21

Really? I'll have to look into that. Thanks :)

-Larry

>> Yes. There are two of them in fact.

>> Problem is, the cheap turkeys didn't provide a template like they did
>> with the Momo :(

>> -Larry

> Look on the install CD. Believe there's a template there, guessing a PDF.

> SB

> BTW, the wheel rotation stops were also done in software on the DFP since
> the 4.60 drivers. It had two hardware modes for PS2 (which it was
> targeted at), but I never used anything but the 900 degree mode with
> software stops, usually at 540.

by **Larr** » Sun, 22 Oct 2006 03:02:29

Give that man a doggy biscuit ;)

-Larry

> Really? I'll have to look into that. Thanks :)

> -Larry

>>> Yes. There are two of them in fact.

>>> Problem is, the cheap turkeys didn't provide a template like they did
>>> with the Momo :(

>>> -Larry

>> Look on the install CD. Believe there's a template there, guessing a
>> PDF.

>> SB

>> BTW, the wheel rotation stops were also done in software on the DFP since
>> the 4.60 drivers. It had two hardware modes for PS2 (which it was
>> targeted at), but I never used anything but the 900 degree mode with
>> software stops, usually at 540.

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