rec.autos.simulators

> Actually, GPL has "sold" around 300,000 copies.  That is, almost 200,000
> full-boat copies were distributed with a magazine, but 100K were legitimate
> retail sales.  The initial "sell thru" was disappointing, around 30K, as
> compared to the NR series, which eventually reached into the seven-figure
> range.  The suits felt that GPL should have matched, say, IndyCar Racing (&
> ICR2/CART Racing), which crept into the six-figure range.  Thus, the initial
> 30K (attributable mostly to game-play issues, plus some technical
> glitches/hurdles) was seen as a crushing defeat and killed the possibility
> of sequels (despite the fact that a terrible game like Postal, which
> garnered scathing reviews and racked up a similiar 30K sell-thru, somehow
> survived to become Postal II...which is an even greater critical and
> commercial failure).

> >This is not unlike what car manufacturers do, have a new experimental
> >engine that you believe is ready for main stream production but want to
> >make sure, put it in a niche model and let the niche customers suffer
> >the teething problems and release it in mainstream products later on,
> >new break system, new manufacturing technique....the list goes on, you
> >can afford to***off a few niche customers, but pissing off the
> >mainstream customers is going to hurt your wallet

> Papy should make a GPL 2 and market it like Ford is handling the new
> GT.  Aim specifically for sim enthusiasits, press 50,000 copies of it,
> charge $250 for it, and promote the hell out of it to give visibility
> to their company as a sim developer.

> "Grand Prix Legends 2 - The Pace Car for an Entire *** Genre"

> Jason

> > Actually, GPL has "sold" around 300,000 copies.  That is, almost 200,000
> > full-boat copies were distributed with a magazine, but 100K were
legitimate
> > retail sales.  The initial "sell thru" was disappointing, around 30K, as
> > compared to the NR series, which eventually reached into the
seven-figure
> > range.  The suits felt that GPL should have matched, say, IndyCar Racing
(&
> > ICR2/CART Racing), which crept into the six-figure range.  Thus, the
initial
> > 30K (attributable mostly to game-play issues, plus some technical
> > glitches/hurdles) was seen as a crushing defeat and killed the
possibility
> > of sequels (despite the fact that a terrible game like Postal, which
> > garnered scathing reviews and racked up a similiar 30K sell-thru,
somehow
> > survived to become Postal II...which is an even greater critical and
> > commercial failure).

> Well, my comment about the commercial success of GPL, or lack of, was a
> tongue in cheek remark really as my take on it has always been that if
> Papy/Sierra expected it to be highly successful from a stand alone
> commercial POV, then they were more than slightly delusional, however,
> I've always looked at it as a "test bed" for the then next generation of
> physics engine, for which they managed to get, according to you, at
> least 30 000 paying "beta testers" initially when it mattered to them
> without risking their milk cow, the Nascar series

> And from that POV it was a rather successful release I'd say, I'm
> guessing the feedback from the punters is what made them skip the then
> already in dev N3 and decided that the time wasn't quite right yet and
> they gave us N2.5 instead, not to mention that the people involved got
> to work on something besides Nascar for a while

> This is not unlike what car manufacturers do, have a new experimental
> engine that you believe is ready for main stream production but want to
> make sure, put it in a niche model and let the niche customers suffer
> the teething problems and release it in mainstream products later on,
> new break system, new manufacturing technique....the list goes on, you
> can afford to***off a few niche customers, but pissing off the
> mainstream customers is going to hurt your wallet

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy
> "goyl at nettx dot no"

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
> --Groucho Marx--

> The reason given for the long time and high cost of developing GPL was that
> the NR series needed a new physics engine, and rather than pulling worker
> bees off the assembly line (NR was the cash cow), the suits detailed a Skunk
> Works, headed by Kaemmer, to whip up the new code (much as Apple did when
> Jobs & his disciples developed the Lisa in secret).  In this they succeeded,
> but management felt like they'd been snookered into releasing a game (GPL)
> that the marketing wonks never believed in.  The N2003 engine is a further
> refinement of GPL's physics, not a whole new engine.

> > The reason given for the long time and high cost of developing GPL was
that
> > the NR series needed a new physics engine, and rather than pulling
worker
> > bees off the assembly line (NR was the cash cow), the suits detailed a
Skunk
> > Works, headed by Kaemmer, to whip up the new code (much as Apple did
when
> > Jobs & his disciples developed the Lisa in secret).  In this they
succeeded,
> > but management felt like they'd been snookered into releasing a game
(GPL)
> > that the marketing wonks never believed in.  The N2003 engine is a
further
> > refinement of GPL's physics, not a whole new engine.

> Exactly, so as a niche product paving the way for the new physics engine
> it was actually quite successful even if it didn't produce an
> overwhelming revenue for the shareholders

> I would have loved to be in the room the day DK and the other guys
> convinced the suits to let them release the new physics engine as a 1967
> F1 sim, I can imagine that took some creative persuading :-D

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy
> "goyl at nettx dot no"

> http://www.theuspits.com

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
> --Groucho Marx--

> > I have more confidence in Elvis actually being alive than I do
> > that this Racing Legends from this West group will actually raise
> > itself from the dead.

> It's not dead, it's restin'!

> Um, Lisa was never a skunk works-type project beyond normal corporate
> secrecy; it was a major design project. The Macintosh, in its initial
> form, was more of an under-the-management-radar project at first (and I
> assume you meant the Mac here). When the Lisa bombed, it became the
> flagship project - although at the time it still was the Apple II that
> brought the money in.

> Regards, Rudy
> (Amateur computer historian and Lisa/Mac owner  ;)