rec.autos.simulators

LOL!  Thanks, Tom...

Yes, Manny, I've got quite a bit of experience...I've been racing sims on PC
since Bill Elliott's NASCAR Challenge (remember that?).

One thing you forgot...this is a DEMO.   Yes, there are things that are not
correct, but Image Space has done the right thing and released the DEMO
first to get feedback for the final version.  As a matter of fact, we've
been in contact with Image Space, and they want to hear from the people.  So
they want to make sure that the final product is much better.

I only write what I see, and I think that SCGT (with improvements for the
final version) is one of the best things out recently.  And yes, I've tried
plenty of others...

Cheers!

??Jan Kohl??        **The Pits Performance Team**
Computer Systems Programmer
USAF Air-Ground Operations School
Hurlburt Field, FL

Castle Graphics - http://www.racesimcentral.net/
The Pits - http://www.racesimcentral.net/

This demo is not intended as a means for Image Space to get ideas on
how to make the final product better since it's been more than a week
that Sports Car GT final went gold.  Do you know what "gold" is Jan?!
Let me tell you, "gold" is the name they give the master program cd
from which they make the duplicates that we see on store shelves.  I
figured since you didn't have any idea what a concise and informative
review is all about, you probably didn't know what the term "gold"
meant either.   I've spoken to Gjon Camaj, producer of Sports Car GT,
countless times, up until the night before last.  He's well aware
about the AI being slow in the corners,  and the physics engine not
being as realistic as it could be.  But it seems they focused on the
majority of consumers who don't have so many, many hours of experience
at PC racing sims, people like yourself Jan, and plan on releasing
patches with the more experienced racer in mind which will yield a
more aggressive AI, more realistic physics engine and a much lesser
amount of visible draw-in for poweruser PC's.  Get your information
straight before you talk, unless you like being incorrect and looking
like a complete fool!

What are your wings set to on that panoz?  Did you know that a high wing
makes downforce?  Lower the wing and you can spin those tires through turns.
The default setups seem to push a lot so that people will find it easier to
drive.  Also I don't know what sim your driving but my tires lock up, maybe
I'm just dreaming when the car stops slowing and I hear a screeching noise.
Maybe I'm wrong there though, also with Jan, he has been around the block
with sims so I think he deserves more respect than that.  I hate it when
people that don't like someone's opinion go off and start calling them names
and saying they are completely wrong.  I think no one is wrong here unless
it is something that has a definite answer and so far, this game has no
definite answers cause its a demo.  Maybe I'm wrong about everything I said
above, mostly its my opinion though.

Jesse

|Jan, are you crazy saying "This is definitely, without a doubt, the
|best 'modern' car simulator out there..."  Come on, that's going just
|a little too far.  First lets talk about the physics model.  What
|racing car, or any car for that matter, lets you mash the brake pedal
|100% from speeds over 100mph without a hint of wheel lockup?  I'm
|talking about cars not equipped with ABS of course, which the ones in
|SCGT demo are not.   If you take a showroom stock Mustang GT and floor
|the throttle around a 2nd or 3rd gear corner you're going to get alot
|of wheel spin at the rear tires.  How is it then you don't get a hint
|of throttle induced rear wheel tire spin while flooring a 700hp Panoz
|GT1 car around a 2nd gear corner.  Please Jan!   How is it I'm able to
|catch up to, pass, and LEAVE BEHIND, a GT1 Porsche while driving the
|GT3 BMW M3 with Speed Compensation set to OFF.  Once again I say,
|Please Jan!   If you're going to write a review please be realistic
|about your views.   This is why only a true hard core sim racer, who's
|driven almost every racing game available from arcade machines such as
|Daytona USA, Sega Rally, Sega Rally 2, to many racing games on
|consoles such as Gran Turismo, to countless hours spent on PC racing
|games such as GPL, Viper Racing, Colin McRae Rally and all the others
|out there, and not to mention many, many hours spent on real race
|tracks such as Sebring Int'l Raceway driving real race cars such as a
|500hp Toyota Twin Turbo Supra, should be writing reviews.  So I end
|this saying, PLEASE JAN, get some experience with sims before writing
|misleading reviews.
|
|>
|>>Hi Jan,
|>>Can't find the review on your site.
|>>Cheers,
|>>Paul
|>>
|>
|>http://www.racesimcentral.net/
|>
|>>
|>>> Yes, we have the demo...but no, we can't give readers the link to it
until
|>>> tomorrow.  Yes, we were contacted and asked to remove the link.
|>>>
|>>> As far as opinions go, you can read MINE on our review page.  From what
I've
|>>> seen about opinions on here, obviously many of the posters
|>>> a) spent 3 minutes with it before deleting it  (no***pit view???
HUH???
|>>> How many menus did THAT guy get through?  The opening screen?)
|>>> b) have had their heads stuck in GPL gears for so long they've
forgotten
|>>> that modern cars have WINGS..
|>>> c) have never driven a real race car
|>>> d) have NASCAR Revolution and LIKE it
|>>> e) have a different opinion than me...  ;]
|>>>
|

I just wanted to analize your post real quick...

I figured since you didn't have any idea what a concise and informative
review is all about, you probably didn't know what the term "gold" ...But it
seems they focused on the majority of consumers who don't have so many, many
hours of experience at PC racing sims, people like yourself...

Then you say...

Jan, Get your information straight before you talk, unless you like being
incorrect and looking like a complete fool!

Can you say, hypocrite?  I mean C'mon, you are saying he has no experience,
is a loser arcade racer and has no clue about anything about a sim, and then
you have the nerve to say, get your information straight before you talk?
Look who has NO information on Jan from the Pits and strutting around here
going, get your info straight.  I just wanted to point that out to everyone.

Jesse

Where's your review then?

On Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:02:49 -0500, "Wosco"

Wrong, a high downforce setting requires the car to be moving a little
faster than it does going around a 2nd gear corner.  Remember,
aerodynamics require wind/air to be flowing over these aerodynamic
surfaces in order to create downforce.  You're not about to tell me
that a car, going around a 90 degree right hander in 3rd gear at about
60 mph is creating so much downforce that it's incapable of breaking
it's rear tires loose under the acceleration of a 700 horsepower
engine?  PLEASE!

Wrong again, what you're hearing is the rear tires breaking loose, not
because of acceleration and not because of tire lockup, but because
all of the car's mass has transferred to the front wheels under heavy
braking causing the rear to become light.  When you start to turn the
car into the corner with such little weight on the rear tires, you
begin to hear this skidding sound.  Pay close attention and you'll
notice you only begin to hear this skidding sound when you start
turning the wheel into the corner.  

Dam amateurs!

Listen my boy, just because someone runs a website doesn't mean they
know what they're talking about.  If a fancy webpage is all that's
require to impress you, you're even more simply minded than I thought!

What does a fancy web site have to do with a review or how much experience a
guy has with racing sims??  I never said anything about because he has a
fancy website he must be right.  I see your getting kinda mad because you
said something wrong?

Jesse

|Listen my boy, just because someone runs a website doesn't mean they
|know what they're talking about.  If a fancy webpage is all that's
|require to impress you, you're even more simply minded than I thought!
|
|>I just wanted to analize your post real quick...
|>
|>I figured since you didn't have any idea what a concise and informative
|>review is all about, you probably didn't know what the term "gold" ...But
it
|>seems they focused on the majority of consumers who don't have so many,
many
|>hours of experience at PC racing sims, people like yourself...
|>
|>Then you say...
|>
|>Jan, Get your information straight before you talk, unless you like being
|>incorrect and looking like a complete fool!
|>
|>Can you say, hypocrite?  I mean C'mon, you are saying he has no
experience,
|>is a loser arcade racer and has no clue about anything about a sim, and
then
|>you have the nerve to say, get your information straight before you talk?
|>Look who has NO information on Jan from the Pits and strutting around here
|>going, get your info straight.  I just wanted to point that out to
everyone.
|>
|>Jesse
|>
|>
|>
|>
|

Actually I hear the sound when I'm still in a straight line, and your right,
weight transfer does cause lock up and thats why you set your brake bias
more towards the front.  Hey were getting somewhere.  But it isn't when I'm
turning into the turn that I get lock up.  Hey this is all I experience.
You may have different experiences.  I also run a lower rear wing so that
can also help lockup the tires.

Jesse

|On Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:02:49 -0500, "Wosco"
|
|>What are your wings set to on that panoz?  Did you know that a high wing
|>makes downforce?  Lower the wing and you can spin those tires through
turns.
|
|Wrong, a high downforce setting requires the car to be moving a little
|faster than it does going around a 2nd gear corner.  Remember,
|aerodynamics require wind/air to be flowing over these aerodynamic
|surfaces in order to create downforce.  You're not about to tell me
|that a car, going around a 90 degree right hander in 3rd gear at about
|60 mph is creating so much downforce that it's incapable of breaking
|it's rear tires loose under the acceleration of a 700 horsepower
|engine?  PLEASE!
|
|>Also I don't know what sim your driving but my tires lock up, maybe
|>I'm just dreaming when the car stops slowing and I hear a screeching
noise.
|
|Wrong again, what you're hearing is the rear tires breaking loose, not
|because of acceleration and not because of tire lockup, but because
|all of the car's mass has transferred to the front wheels under heavy
|braking causing the rear to become light.  When you start to turn the
|car into the corner with such little weight on the rear tires, you
|begin to hear this skidding sound.  Pay close attention and you'll
|notice you only begin to hear this skidding sound when you start
|turning the wheel into the corner.
|
|Dam amateurs!

HEHE, good one dave.

|Where's your review then?
|

|
|>   This is why only a true hard core sim racer, who's
|>driven almost every racing game available from arcade machines such as
|>Daytona USA, Sega Rally, Sega Rally 2, to many racing games on
|>consoles such as Gran Turismo, to countless hours spent on PC racing
|>games such as GPL, Viper Racing, Colin McRae Rally and all the others
|>out there, and not to mention many, many hours spent on real race
|>tracks such as Sebring Int'l Raceway driving real race cars such as a
|>500hp Toyota Twin Turbo Supra, should be writing reviews.  So I end
|>this saying, PLEASE JAN, get some experience with sims before writing
|>misleading reviews.
|>
|

..

I agree that the caustic nature was uncalled for.

But he happens to be right about the above point.  "Jan" said the demo was
released with the intent of getting feedback for the released version.  The
developer admits to his dismay that the demo was held back so long to the
point where it cannot do this.  This is not a beta, it is a demo.  A demo very
far along in the development.  Sure we can hope for a lot of realism
enhancements in patches.  But that isn't what he was addressing.  He was
correcting mis-information.  Yes, in a less than, errr, civil manner.

That's actually the "glass master" not the gold. The Gold Cd is just what's
delivered to manafacturing, but it could just as well be any other kind of
media.

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.