rec.autos.simulators

>Bill Bollinger
>www.gsxn.com

>> Thanks.  Well if it is missing that much out of the box I'd wager that it
>> is dead already to most of the sim world.  Waiting on a patch to a buggy
>> game that isn't even on the shelf isn't going to impress anyone.  For a
>> title they focused at a simmers they are missing a lot of simmer features
>> IMHO.

>>> Schooner,

>>> Joe's website forums (www.ollineracin.com/forums) might shed some light
>>> onto what your asking.  TO ME, In a nutshell EA decided to go gold with a
>>> lot of missing parts for "online" usability, for one example, the
>>> f2-space (that is in NRxx) to see intervals between your car and others.
>>> plus ways to control dedicated servers remotely (no dedicated commands to
>>> used by admins like we can papy dedicated servers as last I read) only a
>>> voting system I guess? plus other things like outputing/exporting of
>>> resuslts files, you know so post editing can detected I think, and some
>>> other things...

>>> Sorry I can't recall all the specific ones, there was seemingly quite a
>>> "list" from several different discussions...  But EA has seemed to
>>> convince many that they will get this stuff fixed in promised a patch.

>>> Me?  Well I dont know, it is kinda like selling anything...  once it is
>>> money in your pocket, would you care?  I can only hope in this case that
>>> EA will, I mean they are going to want to sell me games stuff eventually
>>> right?

>>> BUT if things keep going, & they end up being the only game
>>> publisher/developer in town anymore, which some reports they are be very
>>> 'Borg' like at EA.

>>> Schooner enlightened us with:
>>>> I hope it is, we need something to revive NASCAR sim racing.  Leagues
>>>> are slowly drying up as is.
>>>> I'm just curious about hat the OP said.

>>>>> I wouldn't be saying that.  Mr. Hawkins just had a FANTASTIC Q&A
>>>>> session on www.crazygameworld.com  (Teamspeak)

>>>>> NSR looks to be a kick ass release :)

>>>>> Bill Bollinger
>>>>> www.gsxn.com

>>>>>> Yes I agree.  First stating that you expect the initial release to
>>>>>> be too buggy to use and they stating you are waiting on the patch. May
>>>>>> as well say you have no plans to buy or use it ever ;-)

>>>>>>>> "For season 1, we plan to run NASCAR Racing 2003 Season.   For
>>>>>>>> season 2,
>>>>>>>> if EA comes out with the patch for NASCAR Sim Racing, we plan to
>>>>>>>> switch at that time."

>>>>>>>> It hasn't been released yet and your waiting on a patch to fix
>>>>>>>> it.  So what is the big issue so far?

>>>>>>> "Planning" on a patch from EA is a slippery slope to be treading ;)

>>>>>>> Mitch
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Remove "nospam." to reply.
>>>>>>> SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

> >  Hehe, yep, always amazing how the rose colored glasses work.

> >   Or how about the kudos that went to Papy for releasing a patch for 03,
> > to
> > fix the flaw that allowed unrealistic setups ?  A basic flaw that you'd
> > think after the umptienth Nx release wouldn't be in the game anyway.
> >  Or remember when ICR2 was released in such a mess, and the clamor about
a
> > patch for that ?

> >  Hehe, same old story; someone else does situation x, oh, the horror.
> > Papy
> > does the exact same thing.......cool, man, what great guys.

> >  LOL

> >> Remember that N3 didn't even have a dedicated server package when it
was
> >> released.  I believe this release will be very good and shot a LOT of
> >> potential.  If they get the dedicated server package fixed (Admin
> >> commands
> >> installed), everyone will move to NSR online.  They have fixed the
online
> >> problems N2003 have suffered from since N4.

> >> Bill Bollinger
> >> www.gsxn.com

> >> > Thanks.  Well if it is missing that much out of the box I'd wager
that
> > it
> >> > is dead already to most of the sim world.  Waiting on a patch to a
> >> > buggy
> >> > game that isn't even on the shelf isn't going to impress anyone.  For
a
> >> > title they focused at a simmers they are missing a lot of simmer
> > features
> >> > IMHO.

> >> >> Schooner,

> >> >> Joe's website forums (www.ollineracin.com/forums) might shed some
> >> >> light
> >> >> onto what your asking.  TO ME, In a nutshell EA decided to go gold
> >> >> with
> > a
> >> >> lot of missing parts for "online" usability, for one example, the
> >> >> f2-space (that is in NRxx) to see intervals between your car and
> > others.
> >> >> plus ways to control dedicated servers remotely (no dedicated
commands
> > to
> >> >> used by admins like we can papy dedicated servers as last I read)
only
> > a
> >> >> voting system I guess? plus other things like outputing/exporting of
> >> >> resuslts files, you know so post editing can detected I think, and
> >> >> some
> >> >> other things...

> >> >> Sorry I can't recall all the specific ones, there was seemingly
quite
> >> >> a
> >> >> "list" from several different discussions...  But EA has seemed to
> >> >> convince many that they will get this stuff fixed in promised a
patch.

> >> >> Me?  Well I dont know, it is kinda like selling anything...  once it
> >> >> is
> >> >> money in your pocket, would you care?  I can only hope in this case
> > that
> >> >> EA will, I mean they are going to want to sell me games stuff
> > eventually
> >> >> right?

> >> >> BUT if things keep going, & they end up being the only game
> >> >> publisher/developer in town anymore, which some reports they are be
> > very
> >> >> 'Borg' like at EA.

> >> >> Schooner enlightened us with:
> >> >>> I hope it is, we need something to revive NASCAR sim racing.
Leagues
> >> >>> are slowly drying up as is.
> >> >>> I'm just curious about hat the OP said.

> >> >>>> I wouldn't be saying that.  Mr. Hawkins just had a FANTASTIC Q&A
> >> >>>> session on www.crazygameworld.com  (Teamspeak)

> >> >>>> NSR looks to be a kick ass release :)

> >> >>>> Bill Bollinger
> >> >>>> www.gsxn.com

> >> >>>>> Yes I agree.  First stating that you expect the initial release
to
> >> >>>>> be too buggy to use and they stating you are waiting on the
patch.
> > May
> >> >>>>> as well say you have no plans to buy or use it ever ;-)

> >> >>>>>>> "For season 1, we plan to run NASCAR Racing 2003 Season.   For
> >> >>>>>>> season 2,
> >> >>>>>>> if EA comes out with the patch for NASCAR Sim Racing, we plan
to
> >> >>>>>>> switch at that time."

> >> >>>>>>> It hasn't been released yet and your waiting on a patch to fix
> >> >>>>>>> it.  So what is the big issue so far?

> >> >>>>>> "Planning" on a patch from EA is a slippery slope to be treading
> >> >>>>>> ;)

> >> >>>>>> Mitch
> >> >>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>> Remove "nospam." to reply.
> >> >>>>>> SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

> Niles

> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:01:10 GMT, "Bill Bollinger"

> >Remember that N3 didn't even have a dedicated server package when it was
> >released.  I believe this release will be very good and shot a LOT of
> >potential.  If they get the dedicated server package fixed (Admin
commands
> >installed), everyone will move to NSR online.  They have fixed the online
> >problems N2003 have suffered from since N4.

> >Bill Bollinger
> >www.gsxn.com

> >> Thanks.  Well if it is missing that much out of the box I'd wager that
it
> >> is dead already to most of the sim world.  Waiting on a patch to a
buggy
> >> game that isn't even on the shelf isn't going to impress anyone.  For a
> >> title they focused at a simmers they are missing a lot of simmer
features
> >> IMHO.

> >>> Schooner,

> >>> Joe's website forums (www.ollineracin.com/forums) might shed some
light
> >>> onto what your asking.  TO ME, In a nutshell EA decided to go gold
with a
> >>> lot of missing parts for "online" usability, for one example, the
> >>> f2-space (that is in NRxx) to see intervals between your car and
others.
> >>> plus ways to control dedicated servers remotely (no dedicated commands
to
> >>> used by admins like we can papy dedicated servers as last I read) only
a
> >>> voting system I guess? plus other things like outputing/exporting of
> >>> resuslts files, you know so post editing can detected I think, and
some
> >>> other things...

> >>> Sorry I can't recall all the specific ones, there was seemingly quite
a
> >>> "list" from several different discussions...  But EA has seemed to
> >>> convince many that they will get this stuff fixed in promised a patch.

> >>> Me?  Well I dont know, it is kinda like selling anything...  once it
is
> >>> money in your pocket, would you care?  I can only hope in this case
that
> >>> EA will, I mean they are going to want to sell me games stuff
eventually
> >>> right?

> >>> BUT if things keep going, & they end up being the only game
> >>> publisher/developer in town anymore, which some reports they are be
very
> >>> 'Borg' like at EA.

> >>> Schooner enlightened us with:
> >>>> I hope it is, we need something to revive NASCAR sim racing.  Leagues
> >>>> are slowly drying up as is.
> >>>> I'm just curious about hat the OP said.

> >>>>> I wouldn't be saying that.  Mr. Hawkins just had a FANTASTIC Q&A
> >>>>> session on www.crazygameworld.com  (Teamspeak)

> >>>>> NSR looks to be a kick ass release :)

> >>>>> Bill Bollinger
> >>>>> www.gsxn.com

> >>>>>> Yes I agree.  First stating that you expect the initial release to
> >>>>>> be too buggy to use and they stating you are waiting on the patch.
May
> >>>>>> as well say you have no plans to buy or use it ever ;-)

> >>>>>>>> "For season 1, we plan to run NASCAR Racing 2003 Season.   For
> >>>>>>>> season 2,
> >>>>>>>> if EA comes out with the patch for NASCAR Sim Racing, we plan to
> >>>>>>>> switch at that time."

> >>>>>>>> It hasn't been released yet and your waiting on a patch to fix
> >>>>>>>> it.  So what is the big issue so far?

> >>>>>>> "Planning" on a patch from EA is a slippery slope to be treading
;)

> >>>>>>> Mitch
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Remove "nospam." to reply.
> >>>>>>> SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

> JP, you seem to do a lot of shrugging.  A tick perhaps?  ;-)

>> > <shrug>  Papy made statements/promises too, that they didn't deliver
>> > on,
>> > weren't correct, etc.   I.e., "Nascar Racing 3 will be based on the gpl
>> > engine"  etc.  "We can't put a save game feature in" (n1 and 2).
>> > "We're
>> > unable to make the pit roads straight due to coding limitations"  (EA
> did
>> so
>> > in 1998).

>> JP, you seem to do a lot of shrugging.  A tick perhaps?  ;-)

>  No, why ?

>> >   Also get a kick out of those slamming the car graphics in NSR.  Until
>> n4,
>> > none of the car graphics in the Nx releases even resembled a stock car.

>> Uh, it's 2005 now.  Papy sorted that out years ago.  GP2 didn't look so
> hot
>> either, come to think of it.

>   So, Papy gets a chance (that took, what seven years in terms of car
> graphics ?) to "sort it out", but EA doesn't ?  Besides the fact that the
> criticisms of the EA cars are for very nit picking items imo, whereas the
> Papy stuff was huge, basic flaws.

>  Regarding gp2, it looked fantastic for the period of it's release, not
> sure of the point there.

>> Before being labeled a fanboy, let it be known that I'm all in favor of
>> something that'll eclipse NR2003, whoever it comes from.  And while NSR
>> is
> a
>> genuine step up from it's predecessors, I just don't see it clearing that
>> hurdle.  Losing the jittering online opponents and warp-driven online
> melees
>> would be a true improvement if NSR can manage it and still get a full
> field,
>> but there are so many other steps backward relative to NR2003 that only
>> people focused on that one issue will be convinced of it's superiority.

>  To early to say imo, either way.

>> As for the known limitations of NR2003, remember it is two years old and
>> hasn't had benefit of that time for additional refinement.  If you plot
> the
>> forward progress Papy made with the game while Sierra had the Nascar
> License
>> and project where it would likely be for a NR2005, Papy-style, NSR isn't
>> even in the same league.

> 03 is just another rendition of N4.  Surely, you can't deny that.

>> But EA do have the NASCAR license now, so I certainly wish the Tiburon
> guys
>> luck in their efforts; I just wonder about the true level of commitment
> from
>> EA to the narrow slice of the market we *** sim-heads represent.

>> SB

>  Agreed.

>> N3 doesnt really count in this discussion after all, including this
>> stuff was a new concept in itself back then, nowdays it is a
>> pre-requisite, dont you think?

>> Bill Bollinger enlightened us with:
>>> Remember that N3 didn't even have a dedicated server package when it
>>> was released.  I believe this release will be very good and shot a
>>> LOT of potential.  If they get the dedicated server package fixed
>>> (Admin commands installed), everyone will move to NSR online.  They
>>> have fixed the online problems N2003 have suffered from since N4.
>>> sniped for brevity

>   N3 and Flashpoint Racing Series. Hrmm. I remember. All N3 leagues
> dropped in the middle of a season with no explanation from
> Flashpoint. Sorry, I've avoided Flashpoint like the plague ever since.

>   GJ

> >    So, Papy gets a chance (that took, what seven years in terms of car
> > graphics ?) to "sort it out", but EA doesn't ?  Besides the fact that
the
> > criticisms of the EA cars are for very nit picking items imo, whereas
the
> > Papy stuff was huge, basic flaws.

> No, it's just that as others have noted, this is far from the EA/Tiburon
> crew's first effort at Nascar.

>Time will tell...

> >  If I'm the
> >product manager and I think something's only going to affect 5% of my
target
> >market and it's going to be a pain to implement, I'm not going to lose
much
> >sleep over it.

> >Time will tell...

> And that's what wrong with exclusive licenses. It doesn't let somebody
> that cares do the job correctly for a market that would pay for it.
>***EA . I DO CARE who makes the product.  These bastards have
> worked their employees without proper compensation and then fired a
> bunch of them because they pissed away their money on exclusive
> licenses and can't pay the bills and/or keep the shareholders happy. I
> guess I still have my 60's idealism but I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER EA
> game. I hope the pirates have a field day. Where's the day 1 warez
> site?