rec.autos.simulators

Trail braking?

Trey Beh

Trail braking?

by Trey Beh » Tue, 25 May 1999 04:00:00


>Would someone explain this to me please?

I'll share what I know, and I'm sure I'll learn something from all the
corrections and additions.

The European technique of cornering calls for having all your braking done
prior to the corner. In the turn, the gearbox is used for any additional
deceleration, for keeping the rear end where you want it, and for maintaining
RPM for exit. The American technique allows braking DURING the turn, along with
the downshifting, and this is trail braking.

When used correctly (i.e. the car is under control and it's not an emergency
procedure), trail braking is useful. But as you know, skittish cars easily get
sideways when braked under lateral G's.

So from what I can tell, trail braking is either an "oops" or a technique,
depending upon the driver.

Hope this helps, and that I haven't made a complete fool of myself with this
answer :)

Trey Behan

D&S Schwab

Trail braking?

by D&S Schwab » Tue, 25 May 1999 04:00:00

Rich,

Trail Braking involves carrying some of your braking into the first third of
the corner. Instead of completing all of your braking in a straight line
(being fully OFF the brake pedal before you turn), you actually finish your
braking slightly after you begin the turn.

Remember to keep the friction "circle" in mind, knowing that you only have
so much grip available to do this. The circle would look like this:

        B

L                R

        A

With left and right being self explanitory, and B = braking, and A= accel.
Connect the letters with a line to form a circle and you have a "friction
circle." This meaning, if you want to use 100% of the brake, you can only do
this within the traction limits while going straight. Any time you are doing
two things at once (braking and turning, or accel and turning) you will need
to compromise one or the other (or both) to remain in control. For example,
let's say you were in a right-hand turn and want to apply the brakes. You
could only use 50% of your cornering power and 50% of your brake to remain
within traction limits. Now, this is a rough example, but you get the idea.

Trail braking involves turning while you are "trailing" OFF the brakes. By
keeping the brakes applied, you are keeping weight on the front wheels due
to weight transfer. This extra weight helps the front end bite more,
therefore you get the rear wheels to rotate slightly on entrance to the
corner, thereby helping turn-in. You then ease off the brakes before the
apex and the car is then in a neutral cornering state.

The benefit of trail braking is that you can brake a bit later, and get your
car to turn in well. When done properly, it is like steering into the corner
normally, but you are using something like 1/4 to 1/2 the turning lock that
you would normally use if NOT trail braking. The trail braking helps do some
of the steering for you.

Setup is a key here, for if it is very loose or has toe-out at the back, the
car will be very hard to control in trail braking. You generally want a
setup that is biased more toward understeer, and one that has its brake bias
relatively forward.

Experiment and see how you like it! :-)

--Dave


>x-no-archive: yes

>Would someone explain this to me please?

>Thanks.

>R.

Toni Lassi

Trail braking?

by Toni Lassi » Tue, 25 May 1999 04:00:00

Views on this vary: some use trailbraking to mean braking while
turning into a corner, some mean applying brake and gas at the same
time. Personally, I think the first option is correct (at least the
GPL manual says so).

Thom j

Trail braking?

by Thom j » Tue, 25 May 1999 04:00:00

Richard this is only one of several ways to "trail-brake". imho This isnt
the best but it is better than not "trail-brake'ing" at all. Also you do not
need "trail-brake" in every turn-curve in all tracks..As your setups and
'steer controlling' become better you will find yourself "trail-brake'ing"
less & less..
Cheers Thom_j.



lifting...braking...accelerating.

Harjan Bran

Trail braking?

by Harjan Bran » Tue, 25 May 1999 04:00:00

Nice try but this would only increase your braking distance and sent you
into the wall. You need to do some braking in a straight line with with no
throttle applied, then you decrease the braking pressure and start to steer
in. Once you do that you'll have a very loose back end which can be
controlled by lifting the brake ever so lightly and using some throttle.
It's really a balance thing. I think it's only beneficial in some corners.


>x-no-archive: yes

>Ah...so this could be read as:

>In a straight line, start braking before you start lifting the throttle.
>Braking peaks in a straight line.
>As you turn in start decreasing the braking and increasing the throttle at
the
>same time.

>?

>I suppose this is smoother and quicker than

lifting...braking...accelerating.
Graeme Nas

Trail braking?

by Graeme Nas » Tue, 25 May 1999 04:00:00

I didn't realise they were nationalised :-) Wasn't Jim Clark the master
trail-braker?

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash


http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
ICQ# 11257824
________________________________________________________________________________
                        "Sorry, my eyes were on screensaver"

                                (Calvin & Hobbes)

Graeme Nas

Trail braking?

by Graeme Nas » Tue, 25 May 1999 04:00:00

Have a look at this page I put up a while ago:

http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gpl/tb-fc.html

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash


http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
ICQ# 11257824
________________________________________________________________________________
                        "Sorry, my eyes were on screensaver"

                                (Calvin & Hobbes)

Robert Youn

Trail braking?

by Robert Youn » Tue, 25 May 1999 04:00:00

He certainly was - carried it to occasional extremes too, not only in F1 but
in saloon and sports cars. He would approach Paddock Bend at Brands Hatch
(and Druids) pointing at the apex and braking hard (anyone else would have
spun). Although his speed just past the apex was slightly slower than other
competitors (less road to work with), his very late braking gave him a huge
advantage. He was palpably faster than anyone else on the track given
similar machinery, and was an absolute joy to watch. To this day I have
never seen anyone more entertaining on 4 wheels - very smooth too - his
mechanics found less wear on his cars than his team mates.

Robert

Jack Ramb

Trail braking?

by Jack Ramb » Tue, 25 May 1999 04:00:00

Thanks, Graeme! I was beginning to wonder if you guys were napping over
there! :)

Trail braking is hardly an American phenomenon. The European GPLers pretty
consistently clean our clocks, with just a few notable exceptions, and they
trail brake like mad. Don't think they picked it up by watching some
imported American dirt track video! Somebody remember to remind Schumacher
to only brake in a straight line. LOL.

Jack Rambo

www.RaceLive.com/GPaL

Trey Beh

Trail braking?

by Trey Beh » Wed, 26 May 1999 04:00:00


>>The European technique
>>The American technique

>I didn't realise they were nationalised :-)

I got this information from Mark Donohue's book, "The Unfair Advantage." In it
he describes how he and his Yank contemporaries improved upon the cornering
techniques (habits?:) of the European competitors they bested. Great reading!

To the best of my knowledge, these procedures don't actually enjoy
government-sanctioned "nationalisation." :) But give Bernie Ecclestone a little
time....

Trey Behan


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