rec.autos.simulators

by **L_NiN** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 08:27:46

OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells.

5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat belt to
clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of enforced
safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other accounts
until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue - even
though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning they
would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body to move
about the***pit.

And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull fracture
described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If something
sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth to shift
the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe they
were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't
implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would not have
helped because he died due to a failed safety device.

Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and NASCAR is
doing everything it can to protect it's drivers.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **John** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 08:46:33

CALL COLUMBO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **Gerry Aitke** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 08:55:48

> Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and NASCAR is
> doing everything it can to protect it's drivers.

> http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm

Is that a piece of tumbleweed I just saw blowing thew this thead :).

--

Gerry

"Michael feels the same way about safety in auto racing as I do. Great
minds
think alike." - David G Fisher

by **Brett C. Camma** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:15:26

It's all about not feeding the public too much, too fast. There's
also the likelihood that they wanted to make certain that the failure
was not the result of a malicious act that would make his death a case
of ***.

It does if you drive your jaw so forcefully into the steering wheel
that the whole thing is driven backwards so that both mandibular
joints bend inward and punch out the back of your skull where it meets
the top of the spine.

I don't see a coverup. I see a tragic act of fate. A lousy
confluence of circumstance. A coming together of a defect and the
masculine determination to eschew some modern protective gear. MPH?

If they wanted to be really safe, they could go back to the showroom
stock formula with a weld-in roll-cage, safety harness, and a bolt in
fuel cell to replace the stock gas tank. How'd everyone enjoy
watching those showroom-stock Gran Prix, Monte Carlos, Taurus', and
Intrepids whirring 'round and 'round at a breathtaking 120-130... LOL

It's a dangerous sport. A lot of participants and spectators are in
denial about it. Perhaps not quite so much anymore as 35 Cup teams
ordered HANS devices on Monday after the wreck which killed Dale
Earnhardt.

Everyone wrings their hands and swears that something has to be done,
but I've not heard any sensible suggestions as to what, in a concrete,
descriptive fashion.

Here's one I'll toss out: General Motors engineers design a generic,
hydroformed steel front clip for all NASCAR teams to use under their
cars. It's designed to collapse in a way that is favorable to the
driver in absorbing energy and also route the engine beneath the
driver's compartment to further enlarge the available crush space in
front of the***pit.

Let's have some ideas, folks and stop thumping our chests and wringing
our hands over this.

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack

(remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

by **James Wohleve** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:23:42

They (NASCAR) took away the evidence, the whole thing," Fiske said.
"It's a fatality and you mean to tell me you didn't investigate it?
What happened? I don't know. Between law enforcement and NASCAR, I
feel quite certain that we could have determined exactly what took
place.

- James "Gunslinger" Wohlever [PAW]
-- - - - Modder/Mapper - - - --
http://techware.gtinsider.com

by **David G Fishe** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:03:19

It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

David G Fisher

by **Don Burnett** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:08:55

Yeah, so go away.

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.

> It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here.

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> David G Fisher

> > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells.

> > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat
belt
> to
> > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of enforced
> > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other
accounts
> > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue - even
> > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning they
> > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body to
> move
> > about the***pit.

> > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull fracture
> > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If something
> > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth to
> shift
> > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe
they
> > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't
> > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would not
> have
> > helped because he died due to a failed safety device.

> > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and NASCAR
> is
> > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers.

> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Tim** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:14:35

>Here's one I'll toss out: General Motors engineers design a generic,
>hydroformed steel front clip for all NASCAR teams to use under their
>cars. It's designed to collapse in a way that is favorable to the
>driver in absorbing energy and also route the engine beneath the
>driver's compartment to further enlarge the available crush space in
>front of the***pit.

I'm not sure I follow you on putting the engine below the driver,
since you're already sitting on bare aluminum 5 inches off the track.
I wonder about placing the engine behind the driver?
The front of the car is then wide open for a crush zone and armored
footwell. This layout has definitely proven itself in CART and F1, and
has been proving itself in drag racing since the early 60's.

The only thing is that we're then getting precariously far away from
the concept of "stock" cars.
Yes, I realize a 750 horsepower, rear wheel drive V8 has absolutely
NOTHING to do with the front wheel drive V6's they represent, but I
can still image a big stink... Such is NASCAR.

Tim

by **David G Fishe** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:20:50

Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of threads
that I start? I haven't put any of my views in anyone's "Tribute to Dale"
type of threads over the past week.

Either one of those would be fine, or simply stop having your mommy read my
posts to you.

David G Fisher

> Yeah, so go away.

> --
> Don Burnette
> D Burnette in N4

> Some people do nothing wrong.
> The problem is, they do nothing.
> And THAT is wrong.

> > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here.

> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > David G Fisher

> > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells.

> > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat
> belt
> > to
> > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of
enforced
> > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other
> accounts
> > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue -
even
> > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning
they
> > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body to
> > move
> > > about the***pit.

> > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull
fracture
> > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If something
> > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth to
> > shift
> > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe
> they
> > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't
> > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would not
> > have
> > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device.

> > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and
NASCAR
> > is
> > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers.

> > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Jeff Vince** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:30:33

A post with so many factual errors I gave up reading halfway
though. Real expert you found there, David.

It gives a fine endor***t of F1 safety though: "It [NASCAR deaths]
is an epidemic in a time when Formula One racing, once the world's
most dangerous game, has found a way to go full seasons without a
death." :)

"The life of a super genius is just so frustrating, having to deal
with so many idiots..." -- Calvin

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

by **Don Burnett** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:34:20

Good idea, congrats on being the first that will go in my killfile.

P.A.

btw, might be a little difficult for my mother to read your posts .
--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.

> Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of
threads
> that I start? I haven't put any of my views in anyone's "Tribute to Dale"
> type of threads over the past week.

> Either one of those would be fine, or simply stop having your mommy read
my
> posts to you.

> David G Fisher

> > Yeah, so go away.

> > --
> > Don Burnette
> > D Burnette in N4

> > Some people do nothing wrong.
> > The problem is, they do nothing.
> > And THAT is wrong.

> > > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here.

> > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells.

> > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat
> > belt
> > > to
> > > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of
> enforced
> > > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other
> > accounts
> > > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue -
> even
> > > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning
> they
> > > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body
to
> > > move
> > > > about the***pit.

> > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull
> fracture
> > > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If
something
> > > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth
to
> > > shift
> > > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe
> > they
> > > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they
don't
> > > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would
not
> > > have
> > > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device.

> > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and
> NASCAR
> > > is
> > > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers.

> > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Don Burnett** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:36:32

And you sure have no trouble sharing your views on a sport that you claim
you have no desire to watch or follow.
So why care?

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.

> Good idea, congrats on being the first that will go in my killfile.

> P.A.

> btw, might be a little difficult for my mother to read your posts .
> --
> Don Burnette
> D Burnette in N4

> Some people do nothing wrong.
> The problem is, they do nothing.
> And THAT is wrong.

> > Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of
> threads
> > that I start? I haven't put any of my views in anyone's "Tribute to
Dale"
> > type of threads over the past week.

> > Either one of those would be fine, or simply stop having your mommy read
> my
> > posts to you.

> > David G Fisher

> > > Yeah, so go away.

> > > --
> > > Don Burnette
> > > D Burnette in N4

> > > Some people do nothing wrong.
> > > The problem is, they do nothing.
> > > And THAT is wrong.

> > > > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here.

> > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > > > David G Fisher

> > > > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells.

> > > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn
seat
> > > belt
> > > > to
> > > > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of
> > enforced
> > > > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other
> > > accounts
> > > > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this
issue -
> > even
> > > > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it
meaning
> > they
> > > > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his
body
> to
> > > > move
> > > > > about the***pit.

> > > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull
> > fracture
> > > > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If
> something
> > > > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth
> to
> > > > shift
> > > > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations.
Maybe
> > > they
> > > > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they
> don't
> > > > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would
> not
> > > > have
> > > > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device.

> > > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and
> > NASCAR
> > > > is
> > > > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers.

> > > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Vintoo** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:03:28

You seem to fit the profile of a newsgroup pest.

<plonk>

> And you sure have no trouble sharing your views on a sport that you claim
> you have no desire to watch or follow.
> So why care?

> --
> Don Burnette
> D Burnette in N4

> Some people do nothing wrong.
> The problem is, they do nothing.
> And THAT is wrong.

> > Good idea, congrats on being the first that will go in my killfile.

> > P.A.

> > btw, might be a little difficult for my mother to read your posts .
> > --
> > Don Burnette
> > D Burnette in N4

> > Some people do nothing wrong.
> > The problem is, they do nothing.
> > And THAT is wrong.

> > > Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of
> > threads
> > > that I start? I haven't put any of my views in anyone's "Tribute to
> Dale"
> > > type of threads over the past week.

> > > Either one of those would be fine, or simply stop having your mommy
read
> > my
> > > posts to you.

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > Yeah, so go away.

> > > > --
> > > > Don Burnette
> > > > D Burnette in N4

> > > > Some people do nothing wrong.
> > > > The problem is, they do nothing.
> > > > And THAT is wrong.

> > > > > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here.

> > > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > > > > David G Fisher

> > > > > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells.

> > > > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn
> seat
> > > > belt
> > > > > to
> > > > > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of
> > > enforced
> > > > > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all
other
> > > > accounts
> > > > > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this
> issue -
> > > even
> > > > > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it
> meaning
> > > they
> > > > > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his
> body
> > to
> > > > > move
> > > > > > about the***pit.

> > > > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull
> > > fracture
> > > > > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If
> > something
> > > > > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the
truth
> > to
> > > > > shift
> > > > > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations.
> Maybe
> > > > they
> > > > > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they
> > don't
> > > > > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it
would
> > not
> > > > > have
> > > > > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device.

> > > > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy
and
> > > NASCAR
> > > > > is
> > > > > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers.

> > > > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Wosc** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:46:48

You didn't seem to read his post. The "steel front clip" routes the engine
beneath the driver in a wreck...instead of the normal lack of routing which
sends the engine into the driver compartment if it goes anywhere.

JB

> >Here's one I'll toss out: General Motors engineers design a generic,
> >hydroformed steel front clip for all NASCAR teams to use under their
> >cars. It's designed to collapse in a way that is favorable to the
> >driver in absorbing energy and also route the engine beneath the
> >driver's compartment to further enlarge the available crush space in
> >front of the***pit.

> I'm not sure I follow you on putting the engine below the driver,
> since you're already sitting on bare aluminum 5 inches off the track.
> I wonder about placing the engine behind the driver?
> The front of the car is then wide open for a crush zone and armored
> footwell. This layout has definitely proven itself in CART and F1, and
> has been proving itself in drag racing since the early 60's.

> The only thing is that we're then getting precariously far away from
> the concept of "stock" cars.
> Yes, I realize a 750 horsepower, rear wheel drive V8 has absolutely
> NOTHING to do with the front wheel drive V6's they represent, but I
> can still image a big stink... Such is NASCAR.

> Tim

by **Mike Donnelly J** » Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:00:05

You must have missed 18pack then. He was first in. I'd add the guy going by
'Michael', but I'm afraid I'd miss a lot of other posts as well.

To me what is really 'Unbelievable' is the amount of fish this troller gets.

> Good idea, congrats on being the first that will go in my killfile.

> P.A.

> btw, might be a little difficult for my mother to read your posts .
> --
> Don Burnette
> D Burnette in N4

> Some people do nothing wrong.
> The problem is, they do nothing.
> And THAT is wrong.

> > Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of
> threads
> > that I start? I haven't put any of my views in anyone's "Tribute to Dale"
> > type of threads over the past week.

> > Either one of those would be fine, or simply stop having your mommy read
> my
> > posts to you.

> > David G Fisher

> > > Yeah, so go away.

> > > --
> > > Don Burnette
> > > D Burnette in N4

> > > Some people do nothing wrong.
> > > The problem is, they do nothing.
> > > And THAT is wrong.

> > > > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here.

> > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > > > David G Fisher

> > > > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells.

> > > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat
> > > belt
> > > > to
> > > > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of
> > enforced
> > > > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other
> > > accounts
> > > > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue -
> > even
> > > > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning
> > they
> > > > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body
> to
> > > > move
> > > > > about the***pit.

> > > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull
> > fracture
> > > > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If
> something
> > > > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth
> to
> > > > shift
> > > > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe
> > > they
> > > > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they
> don't
> > > > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would
> not
> > > > have
> > > > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device.

> > > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and
> > NASCAR
> > > > is
> > > > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers.

> > > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

rec.autos.simulators

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?

Damaged Lap Belt?