rec.autos.simulators

Really ?

So you finally accepted the truth ?

;-)

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Sponsored by http://www.racesimcentral.net/
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

Of course  that's not the case. I very much enjoyed F1RS, but MGPRS2
is a total rip-off with the minimal changes offered and full price
charged despite their not having to buy the license.

Cheers!
John

% David G Fisher

I am beginning to think you inserted the GPL CD-ROM disc into the wrong
opening.  Try removing it and place in your CD-ROM drive... :)

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

haha

David G Fisher schrieb in Nachricht

Dean

Cheers!
John

Come on John as one of this ng's elder statesman, you know (or should know if
you are going to post about it) that Gran Turismo deals with real-world cars,
not something designed to 1100 lbs and a Cd of 0.18 (uh oh, I can sense some
going back and doing the calc to see if this is what is necessary).  I did
write "normal cars" as you quoted above. I was even going to fire up GT to
provide examples.  But deemed it uneccesary. Silly me.

I don't recall offhand, but I usually drive the Hondas in GT and they have
ridiculously high top end speeds.  These are "unmodified" Hondas (and yes, I
know that Hondas for some reason often have higher than spec hp in GT). The
Miata is also too fast.  In fact, every unmodified car I've tried is too fast
in GT.  For a real world example, my 142hp Integra, a medium light, aero car,
tops out at under 130.  The extra hp to get it up 150 mph is large, approx
50%.

Okay, the above was somewhat in jest.  But face it, you can say "white" on the
net, and you'll get a half-dozen responses of "black" (and alas, a few that
will claim you are a racist)...

Cheetah Racing :
    http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Personal site : http://www.racesimcentral.net/

AMCA webmaster : http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Okay, I went back and tested some of the Gran Tursimo cars.  Here's how they
rated compared to R&T tests:

                          Gran Turismo   R&T test
Integra GSR              158              134
'94 Prelude VTEC      164              137
gen1 Miata                147              121

As I previously mentioned, GT is way optimistic.  The Lude was listed as 205
hp instead of 190, otherwise, the game hp's matched the real hp's within one.  
To reach 164, a real Lude would require about 300 hp.

But anyway, seeing these figures , I can only agree with you.
Maybe they're tuned up unmodified cars? :)

--
Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands.

Cheetah Racing :
    http://renevanl.www.cistron.nl/cheetah/index_nl.html

Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/

AMCA webmaster : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

But then it would probably be well over 150hp if it actually could manage
sufficient torque at those higher revs.  Anyway, I don't know anything about
the Euro model, but...

Well, we can get way off topic here.  Basically, top speed really *is* a
matter of just hp, well, drag and rolling friction too.  But as long as your
car's top speed  is hp limited and not rev limited (or governed), the max hp
determines your max speed.  By example, if your car has hp & gearing such that
it redlines before it reaches top speed, you are rev (gearing) limited.
Conversely, if it reaches its top speed at your car's hp peak rpm, it is hp
"drag" limited.  I guess one can imagine a case where the gear ratios are
poorly chosen such that you run out of speed before you can reach the peak hp
rpm (a tall 5th gear with a too short 4th?).

But anyway, either you get a reasonable top speed for your hp or you get less
top speed.  You don't get 150 mph out of 150 hp with a "normal" (note 1) car.

Note 1: Typical road car with typical weight and drag.  Or even one getting
rather extreme (ex: 1800+ lbs, 0.26+ CD).

I'd imagine that anywhere there is an autobahn, they might pay more attention
to drag and high speed rolling friction than here in the land of the 65 mph
limit and torque-monster engines.  But not *that* much to change the above
conclusions.

In the case of the Civic Si, yes!  The one I "bought" puts out 164 hp, well
above the "spec" of ~125.

Phewww!  Have I spent more time on this than I planned!

if you want real, go get real. If you spend 30 (bucks or quid), play the
game and enjoy it (operative word here being "game") or don't play it. You
may think that one's more enjoyable/better than the next, but if you don't
see what the "hubab" is don't try to change opinion because it doesn't suit
your tastes or fit your perception.

The fact is that, for 30-35 of whatever your currency is, GPL has by far the
best physics imitation currently available, whether you lke that or not is
not the point. GT is a game, it doesn't even make (nor hope to reach) an
attempt at being a simulation, it does a passable job of intimating the
differences between "real life" cars, the enormous gaps and missing data are
all filled in by that wonderfull grey matter filling the void in (some of!!
:-)) our skulls

As you said at the start of your post - all driving games are great...and
will get better.

have a happy, driving, new year!! :-)

cheers

-Lindsay

Sorry for confusing the issue - my comment was based in the real
world, not specifically related to GT. On the GT issue, the designer
based the cars on real world data but did not stick to it hard and
fast - some cars he made faster/better for personal reasons (one car
being the first he ever owned, another being the first he ever crashed
and wrote off etc etc). Strangely enough, and not to have a go at
people from the U.S., but the only people who get upset about that are
people from the U.S.. I've never seen anyone from Japan complaining
that NFS3 is dominated by U.S. and European cars which are all faster
than the Japanese ones, nor indeed any Europeans caring too much.
People from the U.S. seem more sensitive to things like this, perhaps
expecting "U.S. to be best" and being unhappy when it is not portrayed
as such.

Not an opinion, just an observation.

Cheers!
John