rec.autos.simulators

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

teehol

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

by teehol » Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:00:00

To Michael M., (or other P2B(f) users),

 Btw, what are your bus (CPU and Core) frequency settings, to achieve
850Mhz with your Cel-566? (been jumbling confused numbers, and thought
I'd just ask instead).

  Does your P2B go above 8x CPU bus multiplier? I don't think mine
does (an Asus P2B-rev.f).

 My P2B-f manual shows settings for 8x (maximum) CPU multiplier
frequency, although almost any conceivable Core-setting is available,
up to 150Mhz.  

 Just confusing as to you did this, since Celerons are still fixed at
66MHz CPU bus, no? I keep looking at this multiplier, and don't
understand how you got it to work, if your P2B is limited to a
CPU-mulitplier of 8.

  This sounds like a fun and inexpensive project (all that ram saved,
no great overhaul!).

 Otoh, (today) Celeron-700's are about $207.00/shipped right now,
kinda expensive, as the Pentium-700 is about $230.00/shipped.
Cel-600's are only $120.00/shipped.

 Hmm, while I'm bugging you..(<g>), what is the fastest "stock"
Celeron or Pentium-III, that an Asus P2B-f can handle properly? It
might be easier to just get a non-overclocked chip, but I still wonder
if this board can handle the faster Celerons or P-3's.

 Also, my P2B slot-1 would require an adaptor. Are PPGA and a FCPGA
adaptor 2 separate things? Is there such a thing as a Slot-1 to FCPGA
adaptor? Dang slot-1, sure got tossed quickly. Sure hope I don't have
to dump the MB to get some more speed.

  Like you, I'm starting get a little worried about GP3 too..<g>. I
have a Voodoo-3/3000 and 196mb ram, and it's gonna have to last a
while. My Celeron-433 (running at 75Mhz Core, no extra fans/settings)
won't handle too many more future games/sims.

 Thanks for any info.

 Matt

Mark Stah

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

by Mark Stah » Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:00:00

LOL... how do you *not* see any mention of unlocking the multiplier here??

if you read the message i'm replying to, it says, "I'll wait for either the
Abit KT7 or the QDI Kinetiz boards to be released . Both of these boards can
unlock the CPU multiplier"

if i'm not mistaken, "...can unlock the CPU multiplier" means "can unlock
the CPU multiplier".

so.... does anyone have any info on these boards or not?
are these AMD-only boards or has someone figured out a way around the intel
multiplier-lock, too?


> I don't see any mention of unlocking the multiplier here.  The
overclocking they
> are referring to is just increasing the bus speed

> Martyn_D


> > do you have a link for more info on mobos that can unlock the CPU
> > multiplier? this is the first i've heard of it.... thanks



> > > I'm planning to upgrade my system later this year to a Duron . A 650
mhz ,
> > > with the right mobo , can be clocked as high as 950 according to
> > > www.tomshardware.com

> > > I've also got an Isa modem so I'll wait for either the Abit KT7 or the
QDI
> > > Kinetiz boards to be released . Both of these boards can unlock the
CPU
> > > multiplier . Tests so far confirm that the Duron is very fast for a
> > "value"
> > > chip.

SKur

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

by SKur » Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:00:00

woops me bad..

> LOL... how do you *not* see any mention of unlocking the multiplier here??

> if you read the message i'm replying to, it says, "I'll wait for either the
> Abit KT7 or the QDI Kinetiz boards to be released . Both of these boards can
> unlock the CPU multiplier"

> if i'm not mistaken, "...can unlock the CPU multiplier" means "can unlock
> the CPU multiplier".

> so.... does anyone have any info on these boards or not?
> are these AMD-only boards or has someone figured out a way around the intel
> multiplier-lock, too?



> > I don't see any mention of unlocking the multiplier here.  The
> overclocking they
> > are referring to is just increasing the bus speed

> > Martyn_D


> > > do you have a link for more info on mobos that can unlock the CPU
> > > multiplier? this is the first i've heard of it.... thanks



> > > > I'm planning to upgrade my system later this year to a Duron . A 650
> mhz ,
> > > > with the right mobo , can be clocked as high as 950 according to
> > > > www.tomshardware.com

> > > > I've also got an Isa modem so I'll wait for either the Abit KT7 or the
> QDI
> > > > Kinetiz boards to be released . Both of these boards can unlock the
> CPU
> > > > multiplier . Tests so far confirm that the Duron is very fast for a
> > > "value"
> > > > chip.

Jenera

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

by Jenera » Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Hello Matt,
I'll try to answer all your questions. First of all, all recent Intel CPU's
are multiplier locked. In other words, the CPU ignores the multiplier
settings on your motherboard. The only thing it needs from your motherboard
is the bus frequency (If you're curious, change the multiplier on your board
and you'll see that your CPU will ignore it and boot at its normal speed).
By default, a Celeron 566 uses an 8.5 multiplier at 66Mhz. If you set the
bus to 100 the CPU will show up as 850. Your P2B-F is newer than my board. I
have an ASUS P2B rev. 1.02.  All you might have to do, is get the latest
BIOS from ASUS's website.

You are correct that in order to make the CPU work in a Slot 1
configuration, you will need an FC-PGA to Slot 1 adapter. I purchased an
Abit Slocket III with my processor. It's about $20 or so. I set it to 1.8v
(depending on the revision of your motherboard, it might not boot up if you
set it at less than 1.8v) on the adapter, applied some thermal compound ($1)
and a nice Thermaltake Golden Orb Fan/Heatsink ($18) . Any decent fan will
do provided you use some type thermal compound/grease. I elected to go with
a better fan to dissipate the heat more efficiently. Believe me, the CPU's
ambient temperature is about 4-5 deg Celsius lower with the better fan.

Don't touch the Celeron 700's!!! They are junk! The 66Mhz bus is at its
saturation point with a 10.5x multiplier. All reviews I've seen on that CPU
recommend to stay away. You're better off getting a Celeron 533a at the very
least. You can probably pick one up for about $100 and it'll easily
overclock to 800+. I even did some benchmarks and to my surprise, found that
Quake III ran better on my Celeron 300a/oc450 than at the 566/66 default.
Obviously, the 100Mhz system Bus makes quite a difference. However, at 850,
the Celeron 300/450, went cryin' home to mama =)

One question for you, do you have PC100 or better RAM on your PC? If you
don't, then you might be up you-know-what-creek... I'm assuming you do. With
a Slocket adapter, your board should support any CPU up to a P3-850. The
only catch will be you might have to over-volt it a wee bit depending on the
revision of motherboard you have. The reason for that is that older
motherboards, had a different voltage regulator that couldn't supply less
than 1.8v to the CPU. The higher speed CPU's from Intel run at 1.7v so
what's an extra .1v?

Hope that helps! If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me at the
address below.

Michael M

P.S. If all that sounds very daunting, you can find many stores online that
will ship you a pre-tested Celeron with a Fan and Slocket adapter for dirt
cheap.



> To Michael M., (or other P2B(f) users),

>  Btw, what are your bus (CPU and Core) frequency settings, to achieve
> 850Mhz with your Cel-566? (been jumbling confused numbers, and thought
> I'd just ask instead).

>   Does your P2B go above 8x CPU bus multiplier? I don't think mine
> does (an Asus P2B-rev.f).

>  My P2B-f manual shows settings for 8x (maximum) CPU multiplier
> frequency, although almost any conceivable Core-setting is available,
> up to 150Mhz.

>  Just confusing as to you did this, since Celerons are still fixed at
> 66MHz CPU bus, no? I keep looking at this multiplier, and don't
> understand how you got it to work, if your P2B is limited to a
> CPU-mulitplier of 8.

>   This sounds like a fun and inexpensive project (all that ram saved,
> no great overhaul!).

>  Otoh, (today) Celeron-700's are about $207.00/shipped right now,
> kinda expensive, as the Pentium-700 is about $230.00/shipped.
> Cel-600's are only $120.00/shipped.

>  Hmm, while I'm bugging you..(<g>), what is the fastest "stock"
> Celeron or Pentium-III, that an Asus P2B-f can handle properly? It
> might be easier to just get a non-overclocked chip, but I still wonder
> if this board can handle the faster Celerons or P-3's.

>  Also, my P2B slot-1 would require an adaptor. Are PPGA and a FCPGA
> adaptor 2 separate things? Is there such a thing as a Slot-1 to FCPGA
> adaptor? Dang slot-1, sure got tossed quickly. Sure hope I don't have
> to dump the MB to get some more speed.

>   Like you, I'm starting get a little worried about GP3 too..<g>. I
> have a Voodoo-3/3000 and 196mb ram, and it's gonna have to last a
> while. My Celeron-433 (running at 75Mhz Core, no extra fans/settings)
> won't handle too many more future games/sims.

>  Thanks for any info.

>  Matt

Doug Schneide

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

by Doug Schneide » Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Athlons do not require any fiddling and are no less reliable than P3s.
Build enough of them and you know this, otherwise you are simply
regurgitating what you've read.  The i820 was not an "aside", recalling
900,000 motherboards speaks volumes in terms of reliablility.  No slight
to Intel, they make great CPUs and chipsets but got suckered by RAMBUS.
You don't hear about overclocking failures not because they are "buried
away", but because there are hardly any.  In 15 years in this business I
have known one person to actually damage a CPU, and that was on a lark,
just to see how fast it might go.  Overclocking is part art, part
science, and when done properly it works fabulously and saves money.  I
ran a Celeron 300A at 450MHz 24/7 for two years and it's still running
beside this machine.  With SLI'd Voodoo2 cards it fared extremely well
in some very "heavy" 3D ***.  I currently run an Athlon 700 with a
GeForce, all in a vanilla case with a 250W supply in spite of all the
talk about this being a "power hungry" combination.

My point, however rudely made, is, base your comments on experience, not
on second-hand knowledge.  I build and sell systems for a living.
Nothing frustrates me more than a customer waving the latest popular
rumour in my face and expecting me to belieive it surpasses practical
experience.

                Doug


> Buy what you need now, and for the future.  If it over-clocks,
> that's a bonus.

> That's the _proper_ way to look at this.

> Overclocking isn't guaranteed.  It's not a 'right'.  You
> typically only hear about the success stories, with the failures
> buried away.

> The Athlon Platform is cheaper than the Intel, but the Intel is
> (RAMBUS/i820 fiasco aside) more reliable and requires less
> fiddling.

> I wouldn't buy a Celeron.  No way, no how.  Hot for heavy 3D
> ***.

> -Larry

> -----------------------------------------------------------

> Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
> Up to 100 minutes free!
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Uncle Feste

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

by Uncle Feste » Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:00:00


> so.... does anyone have any info on these boards or not?

We'll have to see what ends up happening.  I just read on Slashdot that
the Asus A7V has just been announced that it will not be shipping with
the multiplier unlocking switches as planned after all.  Have to see if
any others do.  AFAIK, it's only about AMD right now.  Haven't heard
about similar developments in the Intel sphere.

--
Chuck Kandler

A man is no less a Slave just because he is
allowed to choose a new Master every four years.

pjgt..

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

by pjgt.. » Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:00:00




> To Michael M., (or other P2B(f) users),

>  Btw, what are your bus (CPU and Core) frequency settings, to achieve
> 850Mhz with your Cel-566? (been jumbling confused numbers, and thought
> I'd just ask instead).

AFAIK, the multiplier for a Celeron 500a is clock (multiplier) locked at
7.5. It uses a bus speed of 66, hence 66 x 7.5 = 500Mhz.

To overclock (which is actually the wrong term, as you need to overbus!)
you increase the busspeed. Most people seem to get good results using
100Mhz busspeed, hence 100 x 7.5 = 750Mhz

I think the 533a uses a multiplier (locked) at 8, hence 66 x 8 = 533.
So upping the busspeed gives 8 x 100 = 800Mhz!

566 uses a multiplier of 8.5, etc, etc.....

8-)

*Peter* -  http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html

teehol

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

by teehol » Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:00:00



 I will email you, thanks!  

 Matt

p.s. Peter thanks for a better term for over-clocking celerons
(over-bussing).

Jenera

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

by Jenera » Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:00:00



> To overclock (which is actually the wrong term, as you need to overbus!)
> you increase the busspeed. Most people seem to get good results using
> 100Mhz busspeed, hence 100 x 7.5 = 750Mhz

I think you're confused about what overclocking actually is. Overclocking in
the CPU world is the process of running a chip at higher than it's rated
speed. It doesn't matter how you achieve this - multiplier or bus speed. I
have a Pentium Pro running at 233Mhz and I have a Celeron running at 850Mhz.
Both are overclocked, one via the multiplier and one via the bus speed.

Michael M

Jo Hels

GP3 forcing an upgrade (again)

by Jo Hels » Sat, 15 Jul 2000 04:00:00






>> To overclock (which is actually the wrong term, as you need to overbus!)
>> you increase the busspeed. Most people seem to get good results using
>> 100Mhz busspeed, hence 100 x 7.5 = 750Mhz

>I think you're confused about what overclocking actually is. Overclocking in
>the CPU world is the process of running a chip at higher than it's rated
>speed. It doesn't matter how you achieve this - multiplier or bus speed. I
>have a Pentium Pro running at 233Mhz and I have a Celeron running at 850Mhz.
>Both are overclocked, one via the multiplier and one via the bus speed.

Sounds sensible. But isn't it so that when you crank up the busspeed,
*nothing at all* happens within the CPU. It just passively accepts a
higher "base-frequency". When you change multiplier factor on the
motherboard, you change the configuration of the CPU. It switches to
another "state".

If that is correct(?), then it isn't total nonsense to use
"overbussing" to make the distinction.

JoH


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