rec.autos.simulators

by **Rparr289** » Sun, 30 Jun 1996 04:00:00

I think It would be cool when GP2 comes out if nobody buys it like a
standoff, (No weather changes and no wet weather at all) Damn There
probably wont be any cars either just your friendly Formula one driver
running around the track. When you see GP2 at the stores (if ever) Just
say no. Will shown Microprose That they can't tempt us for 2 years and
them pull out all the cool features at the end.

(Please say no to GP2) if you wait this long without it just say
***it, and make MP fill like Buttheads.)

by **Jonathan Robinso** » Sun, 30 Jun 1996 04:00:00

I agree! After calling Babbage's last week and getting a delivery date of
today, I would expect the game to be released. I called Babbage's today
and got a realease date of July 23 or something. Truthfully, I don't
really care what the hell is wrong with the game, I am just tired of
waiting on the damn thing. I have been waiting for the game since
Christmas and I believe that it will not be released until next Christmas.

I am personally pissed to no end with MicroProse. I will probably buy the
damn game but only because I need my racing sim fix. MicroProse's
marketing practices are possibly the worst that I have ever seen. I
understand the need for perfection in a game, but at least keep your own
damn marketing people under wraps. Shit! If you knew the game was not
going to be out in time, don't agree to start advertising the damn
thing!!!

I really can't even begin to explain how pissed off I am with MicroProse.
This kind of ***makes the spineless pirates course of action make more
sense all the time.

Jon Robinson
Graduate Research Assitant
NSF Engineering Research Center
Starkville, MS 39759

by **Jonathan Robinso** » Sun, 30 Jun 1996 04:00:00

While I am giving my opinion on marketing practices, let me give a huge
thumbs up to Papyrus. Papyrus has been a totally reliable company that
can produce the most accurate driving sims with little or no wait on them.
Hell, i didn't even know that IndyCar II was out until I heard from people
that played it! With GP2, you have to trust people that may have seen it
at shows or pirates that have stolen the beta (Ughh!) to believe that it
is worth a damn.

This is the final straw. I have always enjoyed playing World Circuit, but
now I must move on to the reliable company. MicroProse has failed. They
are unable to produce a good product in a reasonable time. Papyrus is the
only company that has proven capable.

Jon Robinson
NSF Engineering Research Center
2 Research Blvd.
Starkville, MS 39759

by **John Wallac** » Sun, 30 Jun 1996 04:00:00

Surely one jests?

Jan 1996 : The patch will be out in about two weeks....
Jun 1996 : The Win95 version is already in the shops.....
Jun 1996 : No patch for original customers yet.....

Don't talk to me about correct marketing practices, one is as bad as the
other in this case.

Cheers!
John

_________________________________
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by **Pete Resto** » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> Surely one jests?

> Jan 1996 : The patch will be out in about two weeks....
> Jun 1996 : The Win95 version is already in the shops.....
> Jun 1996 : No patch for original customers yet.....

> Don't talk to me about correct marketing practices, one is as bad as the
> other in this case.

John, I remember you once calling me Mr. Nascar and being biased! But you have
far over-stepped that perimeter with your constant Papyrus bashing! It is even more
obvious to me now that your friends at Micro Promises have seen fit to get you a "legit
copy". Do I smell some palm grease here! You are starting to act like a company schill!
We all want to see the "patch", Rick has said it is done, and it will be
available shortly. I don't remember a January Promise of it being out in two weeks but
then again, I could be mistaken!
It seems that this may be a last ditch chance on your part to get some cheap
shots in! Its almost like you are trying to deflect the heat from MP for their problems.
I would like to see the "patch" and the "game" as much as anybody. But the constant
whining I see is pathetic(not all on your part) but learn to make your point and move on!
If you are going to produce your "Sim Racing News" with same degree of
objectivity you display on this newsgroup MicroProse will be proud of you!
Flame away!

by **Peter Tilman** » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00

A agree.. after all, I spent the extra $$$ on a P90 laptop instead of
a P75 "just to make sure that I have enough power to run GP2 in SVGA".
Now I hear that it will only run about 11fps on my machine! ICR2 runs
fine in SVGA, all details except grass on, so why shouldn't GP2? I'm
sorry, but light glittering off a Ferrari's nose doesn't mean anything
when I'm struggling to get around a tricky situation because I can't
see where I'm going because it is all choppy!

Tip: gather all your money thet you've been saving for GP2, computer
upgrades, steering wheels, and the like, and buy a PlayStation with
their Formula 1 game.

Hmm.. why don't Papyrus make an F1 game using the same engine as ICR2?
They obviously know how to make a good sim...

--

[]_.-' (Q_,._ http://netspace.net.au/~petert/
`(*)_[6]___(*)Z> Go Jacques Villeneuve!

by **Anthony Bullo** » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>> Surely one jests?

>> Jan 1996 : The patch will be out in about two weeks....
>> Jun 1996 : The Win95 version is already in the shops.....
>> Jun 1996 : No patch for original customers yet.....

>> Don't talk to me about correct marketing practices, one is as bad as the
>> other in this case.

> John, I remember you once calling me Mr. Nascar and being biased! But you have
>far over-stepped that perimeter with your constant Papyrus bashing! It is even more
>obvious to me now that your friends at Micro Promises have seen fit to get you a "legit
>copy". Do I smell some palm grease here! You are starting to act like a company schill!
> We all want to see the "patch", Rick has said it is done, and it will be
>available shortly. I don't remember a January Promise of it being out in two weeks but
>then again, I could be mistaken!
> It seems that this may be a last ditch chance on your part to get some cheap
>shots in! Its almost like you are trying to deflect the heat from MP for their problems.
>I would like to see the "patch" and the "game" as much as anybody. But the constant
>whining I see is pathetic(not all on your part) but learn to make your point and move on!
> If you are going to produce your "Sim Racing News" with same degree of
>objectivity you display on this newsgroup MicroProse will be proud of you!
> Flame away!

Pete,
I have to agree with you about 95%, I think that John has been
fortunate enough to sample the "forbidden fruit" and has started to
make some rather interesting statements about Microprose and Papyrus
lately. However up until now I think you would have to agree that SRN
has been fairly objective and well balanced, lets not diswade people
like John who have the resources and contacts to put together an
exceptional effort like SRN by making accusations that are as yet
unfounded.

I say let John have his say like everyone else in r.a.s. unless he
posts a message specifically relating to an "editoral" view from SRN
then we can start lining him up!!!

Just my thoughts
Anthony

by **John Wallac** » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Starting your message with an example that I called you Mr. NASCAR, and
then expounding me to "flame away"? No thanks, I'm VERY tired of flame
wars - they're just tedious.

If you can honestly say that Papyrus have done right by holding back
this patch, then I applaud you - you are the ideal consumer, at least as
far as companies are concerned. I WANT Papyrus to do well in the future,
that's why I think it's important to make them aware that people here
are NOT HAPPY with the way they acted over this patch. Continuing this
poor approach to customers is simply not acceptable.

Had you spent any time on the MicroProse forum on CompuServe (Go
GAMAPUB), you would see that I have been just as *** Microprose for
their shocking release date fiasco for GP2. I haven't said a word to the
programmers about that, it's not their fault.

In NEITHER case have I said ANYTHING in Sim Racing News about Papyrus or
Microprose - why do you bring that into it?

Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
_________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________

\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | <
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by **John Wallac** » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Those comments are MY OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS, and are no different to
those I expressed before we started doing Sim Racing News, and would be
exactly the same even if I wasn't doing Sim Racing News.

To say again, yes we have had a look at GP2, although this was NOT given
to us by Microprose who, while helpful, have not given any special
favours to "net enthusiasts" as others like Dave Gymer can surely tell
you as well as myself.

The fact that I, with no payment from anyone, give up time to help
create Sim Racing News, does not mean that I am no longer allowed an
opinion on this or any other newsgroup - the day that it does Sim Racing
News will cease to be. I am keeping my own opinions on the newsgroup,
and not using SRN as a vehicle for them, and I'd appreciate if everyone
else could make the same distinction.

Cheers!
John

_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
_________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________

\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | <
/ :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \
/_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

by **Pete Resto** » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> Starting your message with an example that I called you Mr. NASCAR, and
> then expounding me to "flame away"? No thanks, I'm VERY tired of flame
> wars - they're just tedious.

John, I only mentioned that because you indicated quite strongly that I was biased in
my view in regards to Papyrus! I have got the same impression lately in your views expressed
against Papyrus and your pro views of MicroProse!

No, I don't agree with Papyrus holding back a patch for the flaws in the game! I also think
that there may be mitigating circumstances that have caused this to happen. In the past
they have been very good at providing us with patches.

I think they are very aware of how you and other consumers feel about what has happened. I
think the fact that they spend as much time here on r.a.s. indicates they are very interested
in our feelings. And do listen, maybe not as quickly as we would all like but because of
political upheaval ie. the takeover which occured during this time frame, it may have played
some part in this. I have been involved in half a dozen takeovers in my working life and
believe me it can be very traumatic! Even, if nothing physically changes the fear of the
unknown does affect you! Also, the first thing that gets addressed is the bottom line and that
may mean a lessening of products and services, that you once may have provided!

If you had addressed your concerns as you did above I would have had no complaints what so ever
but because you seem to have some kind of alliance with MP now, it bothers me! And you may not
be an employee of MP but I find it strange that you would be given access to GP2 without
signing a NDA. And if you haven't then somebody obviously has broken their's or they are
feeding you info on purpose to post here to keep the masses at bay! And in any of those cases
you should maintain a careful stance when you start attacking a competitor of theirs.Also, the
fact that you are publishing a online magazine dealing with these products, you should be far
more politically balanced on any critiques you make here on the newsgroups. My personal
opinion for what little it may be worth.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to Compuserve but if thats the case and I don't doubt you,
why don't you show the same balance on this newsgroup! If you had I would have probably said
nothing. But it was the imbalance here that I was addressing and the fact you are on the inside
with GP2 and Microprose!

I know you haven't but after every message you put your moniker at the end of your messages!
And to me that indicates that you are endorsing it as such! And the fact your are involved
in that publication to the level you are does put some onus on you to be somewhat more
politically correct in your evalutions and comments.

By the way, I do read your Sim Racing News and enjoy it! I also think you have done an
excellent job in the way you have presented it. And as long as it gives an objective and honest
viewpoint which it does as far as I have seen then, I hope you continue to go forward with it!

It is not my intention to tell you or anyone on what they can or they can't say but
sometimes when by yours or others choosing you get put into a priveledged situation, you may
have to temper your opinions accordingly!

Pete

by **Dave 'Gizmo' Gym** » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00

I can certainly attest to that. Getting simple bits of information
from SH-MPS is, well, the words "***" and "stone" spring to
mind. Getting an actual copy of the game from them is inconceivable,
and says a lot about what's wrong with their customer relations.

I'd like to take this opportunity to publicly thank John for all his
hard work producing SRN, and to encourage him to ignore the shining
wits on this newsgroup, whose comments are driven more by jealousy
than by anything John's done.
--

by **Geoff Quai** » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Better yet check out Visiware's website WWW.visiware.com for a preview
of their game due out in Oct. (Let's hope they know the meaning of
deadline).

by **John Wallac** » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Thanks for the response Pete.

Listening is one thing, and they most certainly do that, but I am far
from alone in thinking that in this case that has not been backed up by
their actions.

Precisely. Personally I think it far more morally responsible to address
the problems of your existing customers with the "cut down" resources,
rather than distribute these people onto a multitude of new areas as
seems to have happened here. In the future with NASCAR2 patches will
HAVE to be distributed quickly and efficiently, as it is not too hard to
imagine lawsuits if someone loses a championship because of a bug. These
things need to be addressed I think.

We have no alliance with MPS, and actually through the "USA half" of Sim
Racing News and the helpful guys at Papyrus, we have better "links" with
Papyrus than we do with MPS. However, people want info and we'll get it
wherever it's offered without breaking the law.

What was "politically unbiased"? There is a major problem (as I perceive
it) which I pointed out. I don't see that as biased, were I to start
directly comparing one with the other and making unsubstantiated claims,
I agree with you, but in the case here I don't see any bias at all.

Well, nowhere else to advertise! :)

Pete, I appreciate your comments, but believe me I am very sensitive to
avoid being biased against one or the other people we are trying to
report on for Sim Racing News, and it is a position which can't be fully
appreciated until it is experienced, balancing objective reporting and
maintaining relations. Often the proverbial rock and a hard place.

However, as I said I am certainly not biased in favour of any one
sim/company or another, either for SRN or personally, and I can't
imagine that any company would suggest that. I can't give any details,
but it's surprising how many of the companies we have dealt with look
forward to and play each other's products, and even have enormous
respect for the people that wrote them. It may be "cut throat" with the
marketing people, but the people we speak to are more fans like
ourselves. I mean honestly, how could Ed and co. put up with us if they
weren't sim fans?!

Cheers!
John
_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
_________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________

\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | <
/ :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \
/_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

by **G. Warren Ab** » Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Pardon my interruption into your conversation, but...

>> If you are going to produce your "Sim Racing News" with same degree of
>>objectivity you display on this newsgroup MicroProse will be proud of you!
>> Flame away!

>Starting your message with an example that I called you Mr. NASCAR, and
>then expounding me to "flame away"? No thanks, I'm VERY tired of flame
>wars - they're just tedious.

I thought flame wars were a requirement to post to Usenet. I could've sworn I
saw it in a FAQ somewhere... :-)

Agreed.

I don't use CompuServe, so I didn't see that.

However, I noticed you were *** Papyrus on r.a.s. because the deadline for
the ICR2 patch has come-and-gone, yet when MicroProse failed to meet the June
28 deadline for GP2 you said on r.a.s. that you can wait another couple of
weeks.

Based on this and the fact that you were able to test GP2 at certain stages
while us lowly folk have not, I can see where Pete may be coming from.

Heck, maybe you were just in a bad mood the day you posted the ICR2 message.
*shrug*

I agree. There's only two biases I've seen on SRN:

1) You cover GP2 more than ICR2 because of the greater anticipation and pleas
for any news of GP2, while ICR2 is a product that has been out for awhile, and

2) You are extremely biased toward having a great love for racing sims. :-)

hEY, IT'S jULY AND YOU HAVEN'T POSTED THE jULY ISSUE OF srn YET!!!!!!! yOU
suck!!!!!!! lOOSER!!

:-)

by **Thier** » Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Hello,

while Microprose is loosing time with the release of F1GP2 competitors
are working hard. If you want to have a flavour from "Starting Grid"
go to WWW.VISIWARE.COM. It's damn'd good!

Tell me what you think about it

Thierry
A disappointed fan of F1GP2

>I agree! After calling Babbage's last week and getting a delivery date of
>today, I would expect the game to be released. I called Babbage's today
>and got a realease date of July 23 or something. Truthfully, I don't
>really care what the hell is wrong with the game, I am just tired of
>waiting on the damn thing. I have been waiting for the game since
>Christmas and I believe that it will not be released until next Christmas.
>I am personally pissed to no end with MicroProse. I will probably buy the
>damn game but only because I need my racing sim fix. MicroProse's
>marketing practices are possibly the worst that I have ever seen. I
>understand the need for perfection in a game, but at least keep your own
>damn marketing people under wraps. Shit! If you knew the game was not
>going to be out in time, don't agree to start advertising the damn
>thing!!!
>I really can't even begin to explain how pissed off I am with MicroProse.
>This kind of ***makes the spineless pirates course of action make more
>sense all the time.
>Jon Robinson
>Graduate Research Assitant
>NSF Engineering Research Center
>Starkville, MS 39759