rec.autos.simulators

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

Rafe McAulif

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by Rafe McAulif » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:25:46

Hey all. Lately I've been having some troubles with my wheel - a
Saitek (ugghhh) R4 non FF running in split axis mode. In a standard
serial joyport from my sblive.

When I press the brake (z) axis, it will pull the wheel to the left
slightly, only 5-10%. This happens with the Saitek drivers as well as
a "3 axis joystick" setup. If I use the standard, combined axis mode
then all is fine, but not when in split axis.

So I guess I have some kind of interference between the brake and
wheel wiring? This is very weird, since the accelerator has no effect,
only the brake. Makes it ***y hard to brake in a straight line in
GPL, that's for sure! If anyone has a suggestion for a fix, I'm all
ears...


Iwill KK266 mobo, 256mb RAM,
IBM 30gb hdd, sblive, Intel NIC, V3 3000

Rafe Mc

Iain Mille

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by Iain Mille » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:08:42


Mine did this after a few months of ownership - never could find the cause
of the problem - took it back & exchanged for a TM wheel.....

Given that our PC's are probably completely different in terms of hardware &
config then I'd say you'd be reasonably safe blaming Saitek!

REDLINE42

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by REDLINE42 » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:27:24

In Nascar 4 I'll bet? My cheapo joystick does this to, throttle the engine,
and steering wheel moves full lock.
I use to have this problem in GPL too but it disappeared.
Nascar 3 - Legends, NFSHS & PU no problems.
I've always thought the controller settings in the GPL engine were funky.

--
R.I.P. - William Joseph Dunlop OBE MBE  2/25/52 - 7/2/2000

http://www.roadracers.uk.com/legend.htm

Jonny Hodgso

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by Jonny Hodgso » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 02:52:26


> When I press the brake (z) axis, it will pull the wheel to the left
> slightly, only 5-10%. This happens with the Saitek drivers as well as
> a "3 axis joystick" setup. If I use the standard, combined axis mode
> then all is fine, but not when in split axis.

> So I guess I have some kind of interference between the brake and
> wheel wiring? This is very weird, since the accelerator has no effect,
> only the brake. Makes it ***y hard to brake in a straight line in
> GPL, that's for sure! If anyone has a suggestion for a fix, I'm all
> ears...

See also the "Act Labs Force RS problem." thread.

Sounds similar... I'd love to know what the root cause is.

Jonny

Andreas Mikkelse

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by Andreas Mikkelse » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 06:30:27



> Hey all. Lately I've been having some troubles with my wheel - a
> Saitek (ugghhh) R4 non FF running in split axis mode. In a standard
> serial joyport from my sblive.


> Iwill KK266 mobo, 256mb RAM,
> IBM 30gb hdd, sblive, Intel NIC, V3 3000

It might be your sound / gamecard. I (and even a friend of mine) had the
same problem, and yes it was with a sblive card. Try another sound /
gamecard.

gl (-:

Andreas

mark jeangerar

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by mark jeangerar » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:25:57

I don't know how far you can go with adjustment in your wheel, but I cured
the same problem by changing the ranges in my pots. I noticed, while looking
at an x-y grid, that the problem only arose at a certain value on the brake
pedal, say between 112 and 123. I moved the pot so that the total brake
travel was between 50 and 100 and the problem is bypassed in that manner. I
also had some variance in the 30-40s. So I had to shorten my brake pedal
travel to get the whole thing in between the glitches. I also have to
install new pots with the grid running. Major pain, but better than pulling
under braking or full throttle.

....did I mention that my gas pedal did the same, and when I changed either
the gas or the brake it would in turn change the other...

...chased that sucker for two weeks....

...keep notes...

Hope that helps. "-)

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

> Hey all. Lately I've been having some troubles with my wheel - a
> Saitek (ugghhh) R4 non FF running in split axis mode. In a standard
> serial joyport from my sblive.

> When I press the brake (z) axis, it will pull the wheel to the left
> slightly, only 5-10%. This happens with the Saitek drivers as well as
> a "3 axis joystick" setup. If I use the standard, combined axis mode
> then all is fine, but not when in split axis.

> So I guess I have some kind of interference between the brake and
> wheel wiring? This is very weird, since the accelerator has no effect,
> only the brake. Makes it ***y hard to brake in a straight line in
> GPL, that's for sure! If anyone has a suggestion for a fix, I'm all
> ears...


> Iwill KK266 mobo, 256mb RAM,
> IBM 30gb hdd, sblive, Intel NIC, V3 3000

> Rafe Mc

Rafe McAulif

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by Rafe McAulif » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:00:59

Thanks for the suggestions, this is one hell of a frustrating thing.
Just spent the last two hours with a multimeter, trying to test it via
the joyport pins, but I couldn't locate any axes or buttons! No
problem if it was set to combines axes, I could measure the resistance
no problem at standard pin-outs. But not in split axis. I'm guessing
maybe Saitek use some funky pinout setup, but then this would***
with other games and windows controllers wouldn't work. So it's got me
stuffed.

Might try the sound card thing, but I haven't got many choices here :D
I'll pinch my brother's sblive and see how we go.

Even more frustrating is that I spent AGES changing the pots to
special audio grade conductive plastic pots, supposed to be the bees
knees. They work well, but now I struggle to keep the car on track
under braking!!! GRRRRRRR!

Rafe Mc

On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:25:57 -0700, "mark jeangerard"


>I don't know how far you can go with adjustment in your wheel, but I cured
>the same problem by changing the ranges in my pots. I noticed, while looking
>at an x-y grid, that the problem only arose at a certain value on the brake
>pedal, say between 112 and 123. I moved the pot so that the total brake
>travel was between 50 and 100 and the problem is bypassed in that manner. I
>also had some variance in the 30-40s. So I had to shorten my brake pedal
>travel to get the whole thing in between the glitches. I also have to
>install new pots with the grid running. Major pain, but better than pulling
>under braking or full throttle.

>....did I mention that my gas pedal did the same, and when I changed either
>the gas or the brake it would in turn change the other...

>...chased that sucker for two weeks....

>...keep notes...

>Hope that helps. "-)

Stephen Smit

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by Stephen Smit » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:14:44

Rafe,

Might be mechanical.  I had "brake creep" (for want of a better term) with
my LWFF (early model).  During long-ish races, particularly in SCGT, it was
as if my engine was losing power.  Finally, I discovered, in some game that
had an on-screen indication of brake pedal effort, that the brakes were
slowly coming on, eventually approaching abt. 50% effort.  And I was
thinking I musta dropped a valve!  Anyway, I swapped out the mechanical unit
(the wheel; left the pedals--a TSW conversion--the same), same Logi drivers,
same OS, same pgms., etc., and all was well.  Poke around inside, jiggle
connections, etc.  Use a multimeter (if you've got one) to measure
resistance, etc.  Might work; you never know.

--Steve


> Hey all. Lately I've been having some troubles with my wheel - a
> Saitek (ugghhh) R4 non FF running in split axis mode. In a standard
> serial joyport from my sblive.

> When I press the brake (z) axis, it will pull the wheel to the left
> slightly, only 5-10%. This happens with the Saitek drivers as well as
> a "3 axis joystick" setup. If I use the standard, combined axis mode
> then all is fine, but not when in split axis.

> So I guess I have some kind of interference between the brake and
> wheel wiring? This is very weird, since the accelerator has no effect,
> only the brake. Makes it ***y hard to brake in a straight line in
> GPL, that's for sure! If anyone has a suggestion for a fix, I'm all
> ears...


> Iwill KK266 mobo, 256mb RAM,
> IBM 30gb hdd, sblive, Intel NIC, V3 3000

> Rafe Mc

Morris Jone

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by Morris Jone » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:33:58

I would say in N4 they did this to reflect the engine torque.

> Rafe,

> Might be mechanical.  I had "brake creep" (for want of a better term) with
> my LWFF (early model).  During long-ish races, particularly in SCGT, it
was
> as if my engine was losing power.  Finally, I discovered, in some game
that
> had an on-screen indication of brake pedal effort, that the brakes were
> slowly coming on, eventually approaching abt. 50% effort.  And I was
> thinking I musta dropped a valve!  Anyway, I swapped out the mechanical
unit
> (the wheel; left the pedals--a TSW conversion--the same), same Logi
drivers,
> same OS, same pgms., etc., and all was well.  Poke around inside, jiggle
> connections, etc.  Use a multimeter (if you've got one) to measure
> resistance, etc.  Might work; you never know.

> --Steve



> > Hey all. Lately I've been having some troubles with my wheel - a
> > Saitek (ugghhh) R4 non FF running in split axis mode. In a standard
> > serial joyport from my sblive.

> > When I press the brake (z) axis, it will pull the wheel to the left
> > slightly, only 5-10%. This happens with the Saitek drivers as well as
> > a "3 axis joystick" setup. If I use the standard, combined axis mode
> > then all is fine, but not when in split axis.

> > So I guess I have some kind of interference between the brake and
> > wheel wiring? This is very weird, since the accelerator has no effect,
> > only the brake. Makes it ***y hard to brake in a straight line in
> > GPL, that's for sure! If anyone has a suggestion for a fix, I'm all
> > ears...


> > Iwill KK266 mobo, 256mb RAM,
> > IBM 30gb hdd, sblive, Intel NIC, V3 3000

> > Rafe Mc

Rafe McAulif

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by Rafe McAulif » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:47:47

I've actually been trying to test the wheel with a multimeter from the
game port connector, frustrating as all hell. Thing slips about,
trying to get two probes on the pins AND turn the wheel??? Talk about
annoying :-P

I know the pedal pots are 100% but not sure about the wheel, I'll have
to check it out. The brakes and gas give the full travel (from what
the MS game controller thingy tells me) but it also shows the steering
moving with the brakes. This may take some time...

Rafe Mc

On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:14:44 GMT, "Stephen Smith"


>Rafe,

>Might be mechanical.  I had "brake creep" (for want of a better term) with
>my LWFF (early model).  During long-ish races, particularly in SCGT, it was
>as if my engine was losing power.  Finally, I discovered, in some game that
>had an on-screen indication of brake pedal effort, that the brakes were
>slowly coming on, eventually approaching abt. 50% effort.  And I was
>thinking I musta dropped a valve!  Anyway, I swapped out the mechanical unit
>(the wheel; left the pedals--a TSW conversion--the same), same Logi drivers,
>same OS, same pgms., etc., and all was well.  Poke around inside, jiggle
>connections, etc.  Use a multimeter (if you've got one) to measure
>resistance, etc.  Might work; you never know.

>--Steve



>> Hey all. Lately I've been having some troubles with my wheel - a
>> Saitek (ugghhh) R4 non FF running in split axis mode. In a standard
>> serial joyport from my sblive.

>> When I press the brake (z) axis, it will pull the wheel to the left
>> slightly, only 5-10%. This happens with the Saitek drivers as well as
>> a "3 axis joystick" setup. If I use the standard, combined axis mode
>> then all is fine, but not when in split axis.

>> So I guess I have some kind of interference between the brake and
>> wheel wiring? This is very weird, since the accelerator has no effect,
>> only the brake. Makes it ***y hard to brake in a straight line in
>> GPL, that's for sure! If anyone has a suggestion for a fix, I'm all
>> ears...


>> Iwill KK266 mobo, 256mb RAM,
>> IBM 30gb hdd, sblive, Intel NIC, V3 3000

>> Rafe Mc

mark jeangerar

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by mark jeangerar » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:40:26

Forget the meter and get TMS.EXE. Thrustmaster Scope. If you can't find it
out there I'd be happy to mail it to you. It's under 1 meg.

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

> Thanks for the suggestions, this is one hell of a frustrating thing.
> Just spent the last two hours with a multimeter, trying to test it via
> the joyport pins, but I couldn't locate any axes or buttons! No
> problem if it was set to combines axes, I could measure the resistance
> no problem at standard pin-outs. But not in split axis. I'm guessing
> maybe Saitek use some funky pinout setup, but then this would***
> with other games and windows controllers wouldn't work. So it's got me
> stuffed.

> Might try the sound card thing, but I haven't got many choices here :D
> I'll pinch my brother's sblive and see how we go.

> Even more frustrating is that I spent AGES changing the pots to
> special audio grade conductive plastic pots, supposed to be the bees
> knees. They work well, but now I struggle to keep the car on track
> under braking!!! GRRRRRRR!

> Rafe Mc

> On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:25:57 -0700, "mark jeangerard"

> >I don't know how far you can go with adjustment in your wheel, but I
cured
> >the same problem by changing the ranges in my pots. I noticed, while
looking
> >at an x-y grid, that the problem only arose at a certain value on the
brake
> >pedal, say between 112 and 123. I moved the pot so that the total brake
> >travel was between 50 and 100 and the problem is bypassed in that manner.
I
> >also had some variance in the 30-40s. So I had to shorten my brake pedal
> >travel to get the whole thing in between the glitches. I also have to
> >install new pots with the grid running. Major pain, but better than
pulling
> >under braking or full throttle.

> >....did I mention that my gas pedal did the same, and when I changed
either
> >the gas or the brake it would in turn change the other...

> >...chased that sucker for two weeks....

> >...keep notes...

> >Hope that helps. "-)

Rafe McAulif

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by Rafe McAulif » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:42:40

Mark, I've done some searching but come up blank for your tms.exe. If
you could email it to me that'd be great. (rafe AT optushome.com.au)
(replace the AT)

Thanks,

Rafe Mc

On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:40:26 -0700, "mark jeangerard"


>Forget the meter and get TMS.EXE. Thrustmaster Scope. If you can't find it
>out there I'd be happy to mail it to you. It's under 1 meg.

mark jeangerar

brake axis affecting the steering...help please!

by mark jeangerar » Thu, 01 Nov 2001 05:17:54

I figured so much. I hear TM has had problems of late, and TMS is an older
util. On it's way, and I hope it helps.

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

> Mark, I've done some searching but come up blank for your tms.exe. If
> you could email it to me that'd be great. (rafe AT optushome.com.au)
> (replace the AT)

> Thanks,

> Rafe Mc

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:40:26 -0700, "mark jeangerard"

> >Forget the meter and get TMS.EXE. Thrustmaster Scope. If you can't find
it
> >out there I'd be happy to mail it to you. It's under 1 meg.


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