rec.autos.simulators

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Most of the leagues don't run that way, they do run fixed setups, but assits
are for the most off (except stuff like auto-clutch obviously).  It surely
levels the field, but not "that" much where everybody is half a second
close.   Anyway the thing with oval racing is... even if you are 0.5 seconds
off the leader's laptime, it means that after 20 laps you will be 10 seconds
away from him, that's pretty much!!!!

Anyway skilled drivers will always find their way up front, it's always a
challenge for the experienced driver to start at the back of the field in a
Talladega pickup race and try to find your way up front.  Not to be show-off
myself, but anybody with Hawaii/NROS experience know how to deal with that
type of racing, it's very entertaining and if you crash, oh well what the
heck! :-D

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Well there will always be the  driver whom even with all those laps and
years, is just not skilled enough.  In a sim like GPL, the difficulty of the
sim would have weared him out, and he would anyway have been 5 seconds off
the pace at Kyalami, so the "normal skilled drivers" (without any kind of
help like yellow flags) wouldn't have to deal with him except each couple of
dozen laps as they lap him.  But with Nascar-type oval racing it's something
you always have to consider.

It's the skill pyramid, people down there are more in number than at the
top.  Not being elitist here (I really don't consider myself near the top
since people have switched out of Nascar Racing 3) but it's a reality of
every sim, with the angle of the pyramid being a little different ;)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I wasn't referring to league play, which I assume isn't as popular
as the open server play.

Except on the popular restrictor plate ovals, drafting and rules eliminates
any advantage in skill, since 2 cars are faster than 1, and 3 are
faster than 2, and the rules for almost all open servers force the player
in front to take a high line and allow other cars to pass by inside.

Depends on the server. On an open 0-10 server, there's a good chance
of getting caught up in a wreck starting at the back of a pack.
On a 6-10 server, there are enough other skilled drivers that there
is little chance of working to the front. The main exception is
a team of 3 or more drivers that pit and draft together.

Your assessment of rules for "Most Open Servers" is completely wrong too.
Most servers that have moderators do have a rule stating no low-line
blocking until the last lap or two.  There's good reason for this.

As for your last paragraph, working your way through the field without
getting wrecked out IS part of the necessary skills, just like it is for the
real drivers.

-Larry

I can think of no other form of online racing where a player, me,
having never raced cup or ovals before, took less than 10 races
to win his first online race (7th or 8th race). This would never
happen on a road course, I wouldn't be pulling 1:14's at Watkins
Glen with only 10 races of experience.

I understand that the tracks favor the low line. I was just pointing
out that the rules often mean that higher skilled player has to make
room for a pack of lower skilled racers, taking the higher skilled
racer out of contention for a win if it's near the end of a race.

Also the no low lining rule is basically uneeeded for most of a race,
especially before pitting. All it does is lead to more incidents.

Worse yet is what I consider a mis-interpretation of the rule. If
your car is at the back of the lead pack, approaching a turn, you
should have the right to hold the line into the turn behind the
car in front of you, and not required to give way to the lead car
of the trailing pack that stuffs his front bumper inside your
rear bumper going into a turn, especially if the other car drops
below the yellow line to get inside of you.

And virtually impossible on most 0-10 servers were not only the entire track,
but also a good part of the infield is littered with cars, plus the risk
of collecting an incident for a wreck that started 20 cars ahead of you.

It's all relative to the level of drivers you are with.  There are NR2003
drivers that can do things you would not think possible.  And they don't
need to cheat to do it.

I've had the privilage of racing with, and getting my ass kicked, by some of
the finest drivers out there over the last year.

-Larry

True, but I was referring to the open servers, and driving with all assists
on, which makes running on an oval pretty easy, except you have to brake a
tad earlier to pit to stop the steering assist. The highest rated server I
won races on was the FLMS 7-10 server.

During my short stint with NR2003 online, the most consistent top finishers
were part of a team. This is because pitting and getting back into a draft
quickly are the key aspects to finishing well. I could generally qualify
in the top 10, far enough front to avoid the early crash fest that almost
always happens.

True, but even a player .3 seconds quicker in qualifying than me doesn't
guarantee that I won't end up exiting the pits right into a draft with another
good driver and end up winning if things work out right. The other situation
is crashing. With 2 laps to go, I was in 5th place at the back of a pack
of some very good team drivers (ss ratings of 8 and 9), and due to lag or
just getting too close, the #1 and #2 drivers collided taking, out all the
cars in front of me, creating a nice clean corridor right down the middle,
allowing me a win.

This is part of the draw of restrictor plate racing in my opinion. The
drafting forces the cars to be close and minimizes the differences in driver
skills. Having all the assists on reduces required skills even more.
I don't mind the assists, especially since it reduces the likelyhood of
another driver losing control and taking my car out of a race.

On the other extreme, like Watkins Glen, even in a 9 lap race, the cars
are spread out fairly quickly based on driver skills. Regardless of assists,
driver skill plays more of a role on the road courses. I consider a RC
rating of 4 higher than an SS rating of 7.

The intermediate races, like Lowes are a combination of skill, setup, and
knowing how hard to push so you don't wear out your tires too soon.

True, but as mentioned, it's not that diffcult to follow the team racers and
sometimes worm your way into the middle of the lead pack because of the
no low lining rule. Just follow the pack until there's 2 laps to go and
then make your move. Since the leaders will generally stay low on the
last lap to prevent an outsider from getting to the front, the team members
behind you get stuck as well.

Getting a bit off topic here, but just curious. On the tracks fixed so that
there is no advantage for staying low, is the lowlining rule eliminated?

-Larry

Don't use assists.  Most of the races I've run in the last year didn't allow
them.  Bear in mind, Assists might help you for a short run, but for longer
races they will absolutely hurt you.  Steering Assistance particularly,
particularly if you are forced to drive off of NR2003's virtual 'perfect'
line.  That's all SA does.  It 'guides' the car to the NR2003 virtual
perfect line.  If you are using it at a SS, for example, and you are
constantly forced to run high, your tires will get ate up very quickly
because the car is being forced off the 'virtual perfect line' while SA is
trying to put you there.

I used to run 1% SA due to wheel twitchy wheel issues.  I don't even do that
any more.  It does help with that though and doesn't really assist with the
car.

You mean like Jr, Waltrip and Tony do?  That's how you win races at SS
tracks.  It REQUIRES a partnership.

No argument there.  That's racing life/luck.  Happens in Sim and Real
racing.

Assists, particularly with FIXED races, hurt you more than they help.  The
problem with assist is when they are allowed with OPEN Setup races.  That's
when the bit-wranglers can tweak the setups to work in conjunction with the
aids to create unrealistic driving profiles.  This is the main reason I only
race open setups, where the field is level.  Aids are not always a positive
with fixed setups.

No argument.

Again, no argument.

You CAN pass on the outside in these circumstances if you have a partner.  I
won 2 of the 3 RASCAR series SS races in the 2004 season like this.

I've never seen it eliminated.  Frankly, I find the BR tracks to be damn
funky.

Also, remember that in most cases the low-line rule is not to prevent people
from winning that way.  It's to prevent people from wrecking that way.  If
you get some clown running the low line as a SS from lap one, I
guaran-damn-tee you he won't make it to the end.  Utter frustration will
eventually win over and someone behind him will bump the hell out of him
until he's out of the way.  I'm known as a clean driver, and even _I_ have
had my patience worn thin by following a low-line driver.

A low-line rule helps prevent the inevitable intervention of human
impatience and frutstration :)

True, but if it's before the pit stop what does it matter if someone
is low lining?

Assists, particularly with FIXED races, hurt you more than they help.  The
problem with assist is when they are allowed with OPEN Setup races.  That's
when the bit-wranglers can tweak the setups to work in conjunction with the
aids to create unrealistic driving profiles.  This is the main reason I only
race ***** FIXED *****setups, where the field is level.  Aids are not always
a positive
with fixed setups.

-Larry

Ok, maybe it's just me that realizes it wouldn't matter in terms of
who finishes well? I do remember one open server that allowed low
lining, and although it was boring to see just one line of cars
running until players started pitting, the net result was fewer
incidents.