"Goy Larsen wrote
Oh man, I'd completely forgotten what a nightmare the Thriller was in 2D. I
guess I only remember the stuff I miss, like more vibrant color in GPL. Oh
well, 15 days and counting to FSAA. <G>
"Goy Larsen wrote
Oh man, I'd completely forgotten what a nightmare the Thriller was in 2D. I
guess I only remember the stuff I miss, like more vibrant color in GPL. Oh
well, 15 days and counting to FSAA. <G>
I haven't been following all of the video card developments, so I am
trying to figure out how you "know" N4 will support T&L.... Papy said
D3D and OpenGL, but I never saw them say T&L or supporting any specific
video chip...
% Furthmore, N4 will feature 32 bit color in addition to T&L. So once
% again your V3 will be shortchanging you. The new V5 5500's can do 32bit
% color, but still will be without t&l. The V5's have the nifty
% fullscreen Anti-Alias(fsaa) feature that will really clean up the
% screen. But looking at N4's graphics...they don't seem to 'need' much
% cleaning up.
You are also seeing a "compressed" screenshot...... Pure speculation?
% Where does that leave you and your V3? Well probably the biggest
% question will be...where does that leave you and your CPU? If you are
% running a slower cpu now...no video card in existence is gonna speed up
% N4.
Not true, I thought that video cards with on board processing and things
like onboard T&L help relieve the load on the CPU....
<snip>
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
% No. Your Voodoo3 will do D3D also. But, as F1 2000 shows, D3D is not
% as good as Glide. I can see where they wouldn't want to tie themselves
% down with just one rasterizer. BUT, it should at least be one of the
% options available. With all the Voodoo cards out there in people's
% machines, it's not as though they would be putting in support for some
% dinosaur card. Big, BIG mistake, Papy.....
If programmed correctly D3D can come very close to Glide (see NFS:PU for
proof -- not F1 2000).
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Oh man, I'd completely forgotten what a nightmare the Thriller was in 2D. I
> guess I only remember the stuff I miss, like more vibrant color in GPL. Oh
> well, 15 days and counting to FSAA. <G>
Looking forward to see some user reviews on the V5's.....but I have a
feeling I may be going with ATI next time, the one's I've had so far has
been so user friendly compared to most other cards, messing around with
computers all the day in the shop, doing the same when I come home when
all I want to do is race, isn't my idea of fun really, that's why I
hardly ever OC anymore either, I just wanna race :-)
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com
% I agree it's time for Papy to move on, but their jumping back and forth
% between proprietary API's doesn't impress me as being proof that they
% predict the future worth a crap. They chose A3D rather than EAX/DirectX
% which will end up costing me some more money, since Aureal is now extinct.
Which is why it makes sense to support D3D and OpenGL with N4.... No
chip specific hardcoded support. If coded properly and effeciently,
with faster CPU's and video cards, they made the correct choice.
Especially since you point out that Papy has usually chosen the correct
hardware to support (for features and speed, etc.), but end up backing
the dinosaur hardware in the end (Rendition, A3d, etc.)....
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
% I know that, I was referring to their jump from Rendition, then back to
% Glide, prior to finally going D3D/OpenGL. Every technology Papy ever latched
% on to ends up extinct. I wouldn't go to these guys for stock tips, from
% Rendition, Glide, A3D, to TEN, your best bet would be to pick exactly the
% opposite of what ever direction Papy went.
However, their choices were not made based on what hardware, etc. would
make the most money, but which provided the best features, performance,
etc.... In my book they made the right choices, and the majority of the
buying public made the wrong choices.....
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lemme guess, you have a Beta VCR stashed somewhere ? :-)))
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com
Papy has a long history of going with the best technology, which almost
never ends up being the winning technology in the marketplace, as Microsoft
has proven time and time again.
> % I agree it's time for Papy to move on, but their jumping back and forth
> % between proprietary API's doesn't impress me as being proof that they
> % predict the future worth a crap. They chose A3D rather than EAX/DirectX
> % which will end up costing me some more money, since Aureal is now
extinct.
> Which is why it makes sense to support D3D and OpenGL with N4.... No
> chip specific hardcoded support. If coded properly and effeciently,
> with faster CPU's and video cards, they made the correct choice.
> Especially since you point out that Papy has usually chosen the correct
> hardware to support (for features and speed, etc.), but end up backing
> the dinosaur hardware in the end (Rendition, A3d, etc.)....
> --
> **************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
> Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
<Snip>
Hmmmm...I thought that intelligent producers made products based upon
what the public had/wanted. Guess I was wrong. ;-)
--
Chuck Kandler #70
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at:
http://topgear.dhs.org/ Come on & join the fun!
They'll call you names
And spit in your face,
But legends never die. --Gene Simmons
I had a Screamin' 3D and a Monster 3D. I bought the Rendition first,
then bought the Monster because it smoked the Rendition at everything.
Glide was superior, and the Rendition ran D3D about 30% slower.
The V1000 also had some funky D3D artifacting with some games, so I
don't really thing the image quality argument fully stands on it's
own.
I agree with the original poster that Papyrus has usually made the
wrong choices, and not the public, basically being a step behind from
hardware that was best supported.
N3 finally caught up. I'd like to see Glide support in N4, but I'll
also admit that D3D has come a very long way and is pretty good now.
Tim
> <snip>
> % So soon N4 is comming out. Your V3 will run N4, but only in 16 bit
> % color. AND what everyone has missed in this thread so far....N4 will
> % support Transform and Lighting(t&l) which "should" reduce the workload
> % on the main cpu. Unfortunately, your V3 does not have T&L as a hardware
> % accelerated feature. It can do some of that in software, but that just
> % adds to the system's workload again.
> I haven't been following all of the video card developments, so I am
> trying to figure out how you "know" N4 will support T&L.... Papy said
> D3D and OpenGL, but I never saw them say T&L or supporting any specific
> video chip...
> % Furthmore, N4 will feature 32 bit color in addition to T&L. So once
> % again your V3 will be shortchanging you. The new V5 5500's can do 32bit
> % color, but still will be without t&l. The V5's have the nifty
> % fullscreen Anti-Alias(fsaa) feature that will really clean up the
> % screen. But looking at N4's graphics...they don't seem to 'need' much
> % cleaning up.
> You are also seeing a "compressed" screenshot...... Pure speculation?
> % Where does that leave you and your V3? Well probably the biggest
> % question will be...where does that leave you and your CPU? If you are
> % running a slower cpu now...no video card in existence is gonna speed up
> % N4.
> Not true, I thought that video cards with on board processing and things
> like onboard T&L help relieve the load on the CPU....
> <snip>
> --
> **************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
> Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
AOL
Md
> <Snip>
> > In my book they made the right choices, and the majority of the
> > buying public made the wrong choices.....
> Hmmmm...I thought that intelligent producers made products based upon
> what the public had/wanted. Guess I was wrong. ;-)
> --
> Chuck Kandler #70
> K&S Racing
> http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
> Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at:
> http://topgear.dhs.org/ Come on & join the fun!
> They'll call you names
> And spit in your face,
> But legends never die. --Gene Simmons
They would be selling addon cards to all the tnt geforce owners out
there for their old glide games and F1 2000
My thots...
Md
> % No. Your Voodoo3 will do D3D also. But, as F1 2000 shows, D3D is not
> % as good as Glide. I can see where they wouldn't want to tie themselves
> % down with just one rasterizer. BUT, it should at least be one of the
> % options available. With all the Voodoo cards out there in people's
> % machines, it's not as though they would be putting in support for some
> % dinosaur card. Big, BIG mistake, Papy.....
> If programmed correctly D3D can come very close to Glide (see NFS:PU for
> proof -- not F1 2000).
> --
> **************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
> Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
--
Kirk Lane
ICQ: 28171652
AIM: Kirker64
"The time has come for me to kill this game
Now open wide and say my name"
- "Space Lord", Monster Magnet
> >Quote from Eric Busch in post above:
> >Actually it will be Direct3D and OpenGL only.
> >Eric
> >-----------------------------------------------------------
> >Given the response to the dropping of Rendition in N3, I don't think this
> >will be pretty. Most Papy fanatics bought 3dfx to run GPL and N3. Times
> >change, but how difficult would it be to include a 3dfx renderer as
well??
> >Marc.
> I'd honestly say it's about time the boys at Papy showed some sense over
3D
> choice.
> Why devote the time to one specific renderer?
> Z.
> Please remove my_pants when replying.
Wrong answer..... Rendition was chosen before Sierra got into the video
card business..... Set your wayback-machine (via www.deja.com) and find
the truth.... They chose Rendition at the time because if fit the
bill... However, it is possible that the quality of the Papyrus efforts
with Rendition and ICRII convinced Sierra to push the chipset.
% Sierra was marketing a Rendition card. That's why the NASCAR games and
% SODA had Rendition-native graphics. They finally relented with the N2
% Beta 3Dfx patch. Too bad we never got the one that was promised for
% SODA.
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=