rec.autos.simulators

by **Charles Windle** » Sun, 04 Apr 1999 04:00:00

This post confuses me. Gas prices in the U.S. are the cheapest in the world.

by **Mark Seer** » Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:00:00

I found out here

Sure does. You pay road tax on your gas Jeez man we pay that seperately. It
is called the road fund licence (read 10% of that actually being spent on
road system). Currently this is 130.00 per year. It's getting to the stage
where British truckers are registering their trucks in France and Belgium.
It is cheaper to fill up their tanks on the mainland and get the ferry over
once a week.

Mark

by **Thant Tessma** » Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:00:00

> [...] Crude prices are approaching $10 a barrel, less than half
> of it's peak in the '70s. OPEC members have shown a great willingness
> to undermine their stated aims by overselling their quotas since the
> early '70s. [...]

It is also worth looking at the price of gas in terms of gold instead of
dollars. When the U.S. went off the international gold standard in '71,
the price of gas as measured by gold actually dropped. Even at the height
of its power, OPEC only managed to bring the price of gas in terms of gold
back up to where it was before the so-called energy crisis. High gas
prices were nothing but a symptom of an inflating money supply.

-thant

by **Greg Ber** » Tue, 06 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>Folks, this is kinda what I have been hoping for! So I HOPE we all can do
>this together! Perhaps THEN the oil companies won't treat us like SHEEP!

Grow up you losers. Gas prices are CHEAP in America.

by **Jay Wolf** » Tue, 06 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>> >THE GREAT "GAS OUT"
>> >It's time we did something about the price of gasoline in America! We
are
>> >all sick and tired of high prices when there are literally millions of
>> >gallons in storage.
>> >Know what I found out? If there was just ONE day when no one purchased
>> >any gasoline, prices would drop drastically. The so-called oil cartel
>> >has decided to slow production by some 2 million barrels per day to
drive
>> >up the price. I have decided to see how many Americans we can get to
NOT
>> >BUY ANY GASOLINE on one particular day!

don't waste your time, kiddies. this doesn't hold water through any economic
models that i've studied. at the very least, it might actually RAISE gas
prices if enough people took part. but, jay...why?
1. simple supply & demand. there is nothing being done to the actual supply
of available gasoline. the gasoline will still be there. likewise, there is
nothing done to the demand for gasoline. sales would show a downturn one day
and a related upturn the next. the end result is that gasoline was bought
and for a higher price. period.
2. getting a significant number of people to participate is beyond possible.
heck, even 15% of the population thought that holyfield won his last bout.
3. gasoline is a non-perishable item. if you don't buy it today, it will
still be there tomorrow. no expiration date means no lost revenue.
4. the raise in price that i alluded to stems from a small hypothetical loss
associated with transportation of the gasoline. any extra costs that limit
the profitability would undoubtedly find its way back to the consumer.
we've had it good. 20 years ago, our gas prices were in the $1/gallon range.
europe was already over $2/gallon. if you take a $1/gallon price and apply a
constant 5% rate of inflation to this, in 20 years the price would be over
$2.60/gallon. the current price in my neck of the woods is $1.75 for
premium. that is a steal when compared to historic inflation. somebody else
can find out the mean income if they like and compare the % of income that
gas represents.
if you would really really like to make a statement, may i suggest a couple
of alternatives:
1. carpool or take a bus. in doing this, you have now altered the demand for
gasoline. supplies will increase due to a drop in consumption and the net
result will be...lower prices.
2. think about buying a motorcycle. if you drive a car that gets 20 MPG and
a motorcycle gets 80 MPG, you have now cut the demand drastically. you can
do nothing to alter the supply of gasoline, so this is your only way to
influence the market.
3. take your car to your local repair shop and have a complete tuneup. new
spark plugs and increased smoothness will manifest itself in better fuel
mileage. you simply wouldn't need as much gas. heck, even the benfit of
paying your local shop guy would be wonderful. he would have more money to
either create another job or spend at a different place of business thereby
invigorating the total economy. or something like that. the dodgers will
still suck, however.

by **Don Hanco** » Tue, 06 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>>Don't make me laugh p-e-r-l-e-a-s-e.... Come to the Sunny UK where petrol,
>>gasoline or whatever you want to call it costs about $1.50 per litre. How
>>would you spoilt brats fancy paying about $8.50 per gallon with your gas
>>guzzlers?

>What you people are argung is taxes, not gas prices. England, Sweden, et-al
>citizens are paying those prices to finance their social welfare systems.

_IF_ that's true then it would explain a lot of things. From
what I understand there are many social programs there that aren't
available in the US because taxpayers wouldn't fund it. Which means
you get what you pay for. We have to pay for our social programs via
other taxes....
Now let's get BACK to racin'.
Gunner

by **Gray Taylo** » Tue, 06 Apr 1999 04:00:00

For everyone's information, the American public is paying LESS than ever for
gasoline, on an inflation adjusted basis. Also, the true cost of gasoline is
about $.65 per gallon in New York harbor spot markets, the gas station takes
about $.09 per gallon (API statistics for 1998). The rest is distribution and
taxes. Depending on your state, taxes can add up to $.50 (New York) per gallon,
or higher.

Want lower fuel prices? Talk to your government - believe it or not, your oil
company has NOTHING to do with the street price of gasoline. State and local
government have been financing big government on the backs of the motoring
public for years, yet no one ever complains.

Also, FYI, Europeans now are paying over $4.00 per gallon for regular (why do
you think all of the Porsches are over here?)

> Folks, this is kinda what I have been hoping for! So I HOPE we all can do
> this together! Perhaps THEN the oil companies won't treat us like SHEEP!

> Kinda weird getting this tonight! Cause just last night the old movie
> "NETWORK" was on. Remember when Albert Finney wanted folks to open their
> windows and shout "I'm MAD as hell, and I'm NOT going to take it any
> more!!!" Well, this IS FOR REAL, and it is OUR time to say what we feel!

> But PLEASE, do NOT select "RESPOND TO ALL" if you want to add anything. This
> should be only go to you all once.

> > -----Original Message-----

> > Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:50 AM

> > Subject: Fwd: FW: Lets do it
> > >Subject: FW: Lets do it
> > >Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:24:35 -0800

> > >THE GREAT "GAS OUT"
> > >It's time we did something about the price of gasoline in America! We are
> > >all sick and tired of high prices when there are literally millions of
> > >gallons in storage.
> > >Know what I found out? If there was just ONE day when no one purchased
> > >any gasoline, prices would drop drastically. The so-called oil cartel
> > >has decided to slow production by some 2 million barrels per day to drive
> > >up the price. I have decided to see how many Americans we can get to NOT
> > >BUY ANY GASOLINE on one particular day!
> > >Let's have a GAS OUT! Do not buy any gasoline on APRIL 30, 1999!!!!!
> > >Buy on Thursday before, or Saturday after. Do not buy any gasoline on
> > >FRIDAY, APRIL 30, 1999.
> > >Wanna help? Send this message to everyone you know. Ask them to do the
> > >same. All we need is a few million to participate in order to make a
> > >difference.
> > >Thanks

> --
> Thanks
> Mike Z

> Please remove the *** front and back to reply

by **Mike Zamaroc** » Tue, 06 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Do you HONESTLY THINK that we only want to burn fossil fuel and destroy the
world? Do you really think that Electric Cars are the answer???

Just don't forget that in the PAST, anyone who ever invented a better, more
efficient fuel (and was still able to leave our cars to be FUN to drive!!!),
would somehow disappear mysteriously! So don't blame us, there WERE answers!
It was the OIL Company's that prevented anything other than their ***to be
used.

Hmmm, then I WONDER WHY you are in a newsgroup that is for automobile
enthusiasts? And have you ever made modifications on your car? Are you in
favor of banishing ALL pre-unleaded cars, even the CLASSICS too?????

by **Daxe Rexfo** » Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:20:25 -0700, "Jay Wolfe"

>3. gasoline is a non-perishable item. if you don't buy it today, it will
>still be there tomorrow. no expiration date means no lost revenue.

Actually, gasoline does have a shelf life. Try filling your car up
withy gas and letting it sit for few years without running it. The
gas will 'go bad'. This has no relevance to your arguments, just a
fine point.

daxe

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by **Colin Schroede** » Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:00:00

JEEZ, what a buncha babies!!! Ever think that the cheaper it is to
burn fossil fuels, the quicker we all ***to death on our own
exhaust?? How many of you have kids??

Rather than waste your time whining on this ng, why not spend it
working for viable public transportation, and changing emissions
standards so they don't exempt the worst polluters?

> I found out here
> >in the USA the road taxes were around 50 cents a gallon.

> >Man your ***must hurt.

> Sure does. You pay road tax on your gas Jeez man we pay that seperately. It
> is called the road fund licence (read 10% of that actually being spent on
> road system). Currently this is 130.00 per year. It's getting to the stage
> where British truckers are registering their trucks in France and Belgium.
> It is cheaper to fill up their tanks on the mainland and get the ferry over
> once a week.

> Mark

by **Mark Seer** » Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:00:00

-----Original Message-----

Date: 06 April 1999 11:27
Subject: Re: GAS OUT Friday April 30th

I got this ***as spam in M Email so thought I'd post it here too as well
as a personal reply.

I never started this thread. I was simply stating that the American sector
has it easy compared to us with respect to the cost of running a vehicle.
Since you see fit to spam me with flame mail, I think that I am entitled to
a response.

>JEEZ, what a buncha babies!!!

How to make friends and influence people eh <G>

>>Ever think that the cheaper it is to
>burn fossil fuels, the quicker we all ***to death on our own
>exhaust??

A sad state of affairs admittedly. However until there are viable
alternatives to gasoline or other fossil fuels, most of us have little or
no
alternative but to use them. I say that the onus is on the vehicle
manufacturers and governments to provide solutions. They are the ones who
have been creaming off the big bucks for the last 50 -90 years with the
event of mass produced cars. They are the ones that have squandered
countless billions in revenues without providing any incentive or any sort
of infrastructure for a viable and cost effective public transport system.

I would say that 99% of car owners in the UK would never change their
driving habits regardless of weather gas is 1.00 or 10.00 per gallon. The
people who really suffer are the people who rely on road systems for their
business.
I.E. truckers. If you want to get into arguments about saving the planet go
figure this one. British truckers are being forced off the roads because of
the relative cost of running a big rig. Net result..... An increase in
European trucks on our roads weighing in at 5 tons heavier than our
allowable maximum weight ! Go figure.

>How many of you have kids??

I have three. All doing well at school thanks very much. The oldest one is
off to college this summer if it is of any business of yours. If you are
refering to the old chestnut that we are screwing up the planet for them, I
refer you to our forebears and the shit that we inherited. History repeats
itself and individuals can do nothing about that my friend. My concience is
clean, not sure about the polititions though

>Rather than waste your time whining on this ng, why not spend it working
for viable public transportation, and changing emissions standards so they
don't exempt the worst polluters?

Get off your soap box buddy or come up with a reasonable argument. I'm
falling off my chair laughing here now. I can just see the headlines.

MEMBERS OF AN OBSCURE COMPUTER *** NG TAKE ON THE WORLD GOVERNMENTS IN AN
ATTEMPT TO CHANGE WORLD POLICY ON GLOBAL TRANSPORTATION. It would take a
little more than a bunch of sim racers believe me. BTW We can't even agree
how to make an overtaking move on VROC !!.

I'll tell you a bit about public transport in the UK. A few years back, the
government decided in their wisdom to privatise all bus and train services
in the UK. The companies that now run these services are motivated by
profit and nothing else. We now have trains that are cancelled without
notice,
unprofitable branch lines closed, prices that have gone up by 27% recently
and trains pulling fewer carriages meaning that it is usually impossible to
get a seat. Once upon a time I was able to get a single bus to most places
within 20 miles of my home. Now it is usually 2 or 3 changes with an
extended journey time ......hours not minutes. This weekend my wife had to
travel to Birmingham owing to her father's death (My car was in for a
service). On her return she was
stranded
in London for 4 hours because a seat was not available on the change bus
..EVEN THOUGH SHE
HAD A TICKET PAID FOR IN ADVANCE.

If you have any ideas on how I can change things, please let me know. Like
any other reasonable person I hate to think that our planet is being
***d, but I'm certainly not going to become a rabid activist when I
know that all I will do is lose credibility in the eyes of my peers.

Just one passing thought. How many hours do you spend online, or going
round
and round in circles in car sims per week? I guess we as sim racers
(several
million worldwide) must burn a fair amount of fossil fuels at power
stations
in the pursuit of that lap time. Maybe your puter is a clockwork one :-)

Mark Seery
Department of Transport approved driving instructor BTW.

by **Bob Vai** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

In 1776 the US revolted because of unfair taxes.

Recently the British government disarmed it's citizens to insure
it would never happen there. Bend over, buddy, you no longer have the
means to resist a tyrannical government.

But take heart, the US government is doing it's best under one
"reason" or another to do the same thing here. Not only will
you no longer have the means to protect your family from predators,
you will not be able to resist tyranny, either.

If firearms can be taken from honest citizens "for the public good"
because criminals may "steal and misuse them" we have a good case
to remove automobiles from private ownership by honest citizens
"for the public good" because criminals may "steal and misuse them".

When the freedom loving independent thinking auto enthusiasts
are forced onto the busses of public transportation, it will be
done so because the automobile is the most lethal killing device
designed by man.

...and most people agree the guy in the lane next to them
doesn't know how to properly or safely operate it. :)

What do you think?
--
Did our actions today set the proper example for those we lead?
Aim Higher! Bob Vail

> Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:37:21 +0100

> Newsgroups: alt.autos.audi, alt.autos.bmw, alt.autos.porsche,
> alt.autos.porsche.911, alt.autos.turbocharged, rec.autos.simulators,
> rec.autos.sport.misc, rec.autos.sport.tech
> Subject: Re: GAS OUT Friday April 30th

> I found out here
> >in the USA the road taxes were around 50 cents a gallon.

> >Man your ***must hurt.

> Sure does. You pay road tax on your gas Jeez man we pay that seperately. It
> is called the road fund licence (read 10% of that actually being spent on
> road system). Currently this is 130.00 per year. It's getting to the stage
> where British truckers are registering their trucks in France and Belgium.
> It is cheaper to fill up their tanks on the mainland and get the ferry over
> once a week.

> Mark

by **Phil Pay** » Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Oh, bollocks!

a) Restrictions on a few tens of thousands of handguns have no political
effect. The UK has not had ready public access to the sort of weapon
that might be used in any uprising for over a century. Even the
kooks over here have never pretended that overthrowing a government
by force plays any part in the political process. That's what
democracy is all about - we eschew the use of force to coerce our
fellow men. It's only in the USA that a handful of freaks maintain
they need the power to negate democratic decisions made by their
countrymen.

b) Let's keep gun control threads where they belong - off this group.

by **Tulli** » Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:00:00

> But take heart, the US government is doing it's best under one
> "reason" or another to do the same thing here. Not only will
> you no longer have the means to protect your family from predators,
> you will not be able to resist tyranny, either.

Yeah, good luck using that AK-47 that Uncle Sam is trying to take away
to defend yourself against the tyrant's cruise missile.

Why isn't this cross-posted to the militia newsgroups?

Todd Kuzma

by **David Kar** » Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:00:00

get this silly hyper-libertarian ***outa here.