rec.autos.simulators

by **Janwi** » Sat, 24 Jul 1999 04:00:00

When I look at race replays in GPL of drivers like Clark, etc. I am suprised to
see that they normally do not downshift while braking and wait to do there
downshifting until the last moment sometimes doing three downshifts right at
the apex. This seems to me to be unusual as you would expect max braking help
from engine at higher rpm - at least it seems to me that in real cars braking
distance is shorter by downshifting thruout the slowdown so that engine rpms
are kept high. I have tried the Clark approach recently in GPL and it seems
that braking distances are shorter if I delay all downshifting to just before
the apex. Have others noticed this or am I not seeing things correctly?
Thanks for your comments.

by **Neil Rain** » Sat, 24 Jul 1999 04:00:00

> When I look at race replays in GPL of drivers like Clark, etc. I am suprised to
> see that they normally do not downshift while braking and wait to do there
> downshifting until the last moment sometimes doing three downshifts right at
> the apex. This seems to me to be unusual as you would expect max braking help
> from engine at higher rpm - at least it seems to me that in real cars braking
> distance is shorter by downshifting thruout the slowdown so that engine rpms
> are kept high. I have tried the Clark approach recently in GPL and it seems
> that braking distances are shorter if I delay all downshifting to just before
> the apex. Have others noticed this or am I not seeing things correctly?

The thing is that the brakes are way too good for the tyres (ie. the
tyres slip rather than the brakes), so there's no point in adding engine
braking to the mix - it just makes it more difficult to brake
consistently.

The AI cars downshift late because that avoids over-revving the engine,
so it is presumably closer to what the real drivers did - I believe they
were using "realistic" damage back in '67! ;-)

However, you don't want to leave it until the absolute last minute
because you'll want to concentrate on getting round the corner!

by **Janwi** » Sat, 24 Jul 1999 04:00:00

I am aware of this from racing F/F's in the late 60's we never bothered with
sequential downshifts - we would go into corner apply brakes and select
whatever gear needed for exit and then engage clutch and gear after engine
rpm's were low enough to keep from overreving with selected gear. But what I
dont understand is why GPL braking distances appear to be shorter if you do not
let the engine assist with braking.
Thanks for comments

by **Arne Marti** » Sat, 24 Jul 1999 04:00:00

> I am aware of this from racing F/F's in the late 60's we never bothered with
> sequential downshifts - we would go into corner apply brakes and select
> whatever gear needed for exit and then engage clutch and gear after engine
> rpm's were low enough to keep from overreving with selected gear. But what I
> dont understand is why GPL braking distances appear to be shorter if you do not
> let the engine assist with braking.
> Thanks for comments

Just a guess (plus a little of my own experience :-), but if you're not
braking and downshifting at the same time it's easier to hold the most
efficient brake pressure. I at least find it easier when just
concentrating on braking and not have to worry about shifting at the
same time.

Another idea I have is that as you shift, the engine-braking effect will
be lost momentarily and then reapplied suddenly with full force when the
clutch is dropped again, certainly this unsettles the car a little, and
it would be more efficient to keep a constant pressure like when you
don't shift?

--
Arne Martin

by **Dvla** » Sat, 24 Jul 1999 04:00:00

When coming to a corner, one will get the most stopping power when braking is
done in a straight line. While braking, a "real-life" race driver will
"heel-toe" at the same time. "Heel -toe" is when the driver blips the gas
pedal to bring the engine rpms up to the level for a smooth transition to the
lower gear. Now-a-days, the car's computer does the blip for the driver.
Also, trailing off of the brake while turning can result in carrying more speed
into the corner by braking later and trailing the brake pedal while turning. I
found this to be a great help in GPL

As for engine braking, when using the engine to provide some of the stopping
power, extra stress is put on the engine. Also, it can upset the balance of
the car as well.

Dan Vladovich

by **Adam Zerli** » Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Well most cars have the computer do it for the driver. But most SCCA club
cars dont. Take the Spec Racer Ford for example (my dad drives one, imagine
his reuptation, he's a SRF driver and a lawyer!, works for the state
though..)

Just in case you guys dont know the reputation that goes with a SRF
driver...it's basically a wacko. SRF races are always real close, and so
you have to be aggressive. Well on the track with other classes, the SRF is
one of the lowest cars, and when faster than the other class it's on the
track with, the SRF will pop out from behind the car (cant see SRF in rear
view mirror in IT car as far as I know) and pass you...and you dont know
where the heck the srf came from! That's where the reputation comes from.

------------------------------------------------------------
Adam Zerlin
GT Insider Webmaster
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com
------------------------------------------------------------
GT International Championship Organsier
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com
------------------------------------------------------------

>When coming to a corner, one will get the most stopping power when braking
is
>done in a straight line. While braking, a "real-life" race driver will
>"heel-toe" at the same time. "Heel -toe" is when the driver blips the gas
>pedal to bring the engine rpms up to the level for a smooth transition to
the
>lower gear. Now-a-days, the car's computer does the blip for the driver.
>Also, trailing off of the brake while turning can result in carrying more
speed
>into the corner by braking later and trailing the brake pedal while
turning. I
>found this to be a great help in GPL

>As for engine braking, when using the engine to provide some of the
stopping
>power, extra stress is put on the engine. Also, it can upset the balance
of
>the car as well.

>Dan Vladovich

by **Michael E. Carve** » Wed, 28 Jul 1999 04:00:00

% As for engine braking, when using the engine to provide some of the stopping
% power, extra stress is put on the engine. Also, it can upset the balance of
% the car as well.

Of course this will depend on how one has the ramp angles and clutches
set. Depending on how I have my car setup I will actually shift-up a
gear just before starting heavy braking. This helps smooth out the
action of the clutches and still gives some engine braking without
adding too much stress to the engine.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Rand** » Wed, 28 Jul 1999 04:00:00

I do just the opposite, many corners come to mind, but as an example,
at Kyalami I had set my 1st gear ratio so that the drag caused by a
downshift into first for the clubhouse bend would facilitate my turn
in. But than again, I suck driving this sim.

On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:41:17 GMT, "Michael E. Carver"

>% As for engine braking, when using the engine to provide some of the stopping
>% power, extra stress is put on the engine. Also, it can upset the balance of
>% the car as well.

>Of course this will depend on how one has the ramp angles and clutches
>set. Depending on how I have my car setup I will actually shift-up a
>gear just before starting heavy braking. This helps smooth out the
>action of the clutches and still gives some engine braking without
>adding too much stress to the engine.

>--
>**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
> Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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