rec.autos.simulators

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

Me

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Me » Thu, 06 Aug 1998 04:00:00

This is the best news ive heard in a long time!
BTW.. warez.. crackers, wont they be hack gpl and get rid of the
"watermark" detection? Just a thought... see if we can see this game
un-pirated :) Sierra/Papyrus have worked *** this one, they deserve
everything they can get.



Todd Hecke

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Todd Hecke » Thu, 06 Aug 1998 04:00:00


>It is also most likely that the product could use a hardware
>protection system on the CD i.e. put a physical mark on the CD then get
>the program to look for that before starting the game. This would stop
>people from copying the game because the new CD wouldn't have the
>"watermark".

Er, um, just curious, Bruce, what kind of CDROM drive I'll have to buy to
read this "watermark."  Are you talking about a technique similar to that
used way back when with floppy disks, where a special format was used that
could be read but not reproduced by run-of-the-mill disk drives?  I didn't
know such a thing existed for CD's, but if so, I'd of thought it would have
been used already.  Not to rain on your parade, just wondering. :^)

Todd

Bruce Kennewel

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 07 Aug 1998 04:00:00

According to a highly-accurate but must-remain-nameless source, GP
Legends is going for a simultaneous release in all areas of
international distribution.

At this time there are very, very few bugs left in the source code and
most of the bugs were just alert messages in the wrong language.

My source advises that the international sites (where the CDs will be
produced for that distribution zone) have been very secretive about
Legends: even the people working on the game are searched to make sure
they don't take beta CDs home(to stop the pirates).

It would appear that release could be expected, internationally, by as
early as the end of August/first weeks of September.

It is also most likely that the product could use a hardware
protection system on the CD i.e. put a physical mark on the CD then get
the program to look for that before starting the game. This would stop
people from copying the game because the new CD wouldn't have the
"watermark".

There you have the latest....if my source provides any updates I'll
advise.

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club  is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Bruce Kennewel

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 07 Aug 1998 04:00:00

Todd, I have only passed on, almost word-for-word, what was advised to
me.

I'm sorry, but I haven't any idea what is being promoted with this
"mark" thing.


> Er, um, just curious, Bruce, what kind of CDROM drive I'll have to buy to
> read this "watermark."  Are you talking about a technique similar to that
> used way back when with floppy disks, where a special format was used that
> could be read but not reproduced by run-of-the-mill disk drives?  I didn't
> know such a thing existed for CD's, but if so, I'd of thought it would have
> been used already.  Not to rain on your parade, just wondering. :^)

> Todd

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club  is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/
Anthony Bullo

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Anthony Bullo » Fri, 07 Aug 1998 04:00:00



I am guessing that it would be a simular system as used by Sony to
stop pirating of PlayStation titles. Don't fear about what sort of CD
drive you will need, it will be a software thing. I know we are all
dedicated Sim fans but I can't see any company expecting you to drop
$90 for a game and $150 for a new CD drive to use it ....... Or maybe
they do! so THAT is why everyone is jumping the Sierra ship!!!

AB
Anthony Bulloch

ANTI SPAM DEVICE IN PLACE
Replace the last "dot' for Email

John Walla

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by John Walla » Fri, 07 Aug 1998 04:00:00



>I am guessing that it would be a simular system as used by Sony to
>stop pirating of PlayStation titles.

Yes, and that didn't work either. Most of these measures are a huge
waste of time and money IMO, and should be sufficient to stop people
copying CDs at home for their mates. Anything more ambitious than that
is a waste of time and money - it will be cracked, regardless of the
protection.

Cheers!
John

ymenar

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by ymenar » Fri, 07 Aug 1998 04:00:00

Anthony Bulloch wrote

Haha.... when GPL ships Sierra will announce that they are making some new
CD-Roms that will be able to understand the "watermark"...  bizarre

Btw.. ^^^ that was a joke about the old Sierra Rendition card/Icr2 things a
long time ago...

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

Ronald Stoeh

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Ronald Stoeh » Fri, 07 Aug 1998 04:00:00




> >I am guessing that it would be a simular system as used by Sony to
> >stop pirating of PlayStation titles.

> Yes, and that didn't work either. Most of these measures are a huge
> waste of time and money IMO, and should be sufficient to stop people
> copying CDs at home for their mates. Anything more ambitious than that
> is a waste of time and money - it will be cracked, regardless of the
> protection.

Yepp, the bad guys get their copies anyway, and the honest user has to
play CD jockey instead of doing a full install. I hate it!

l8er
ronny

--
Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure,
kiddo?"

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Han Monsee

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Han Monsee » Fri, 07 Aug 1998 04:00:00

[snap: useful info about GPL being released in Aug/Sept]

Are such features supported by ordinary CD-ROM readers, or does one have
to buy the most state-of-the-art type available?

Han (worried about his 3-year old 4speed CD-ROM drive)

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Vintoo

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Vintoo » Sat, 08 Aug 1998 04:00:00

I read about this watermark type copy protection about a year ago in PC
Magazine. They described it as a pattern imprinted in the cd that is not
transferred when someone makes a copy of the cd with a cd-r drive. They said
it was virtually uncrackable, but where there's a will there's a way. I'm
sure someone will eventually find a way around it.
Wolfgang Prei

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Wolfgang Prei » Sat, 08 Aug 1998 04:00:00


>I read about this watermark type copy protection about a year ago in PC
>Magazine. They described it as a pattern imprinted in the cd that is not
>transferred when someone makes a copy of the cd with a cd-r drive. They said
>it was virtually uncrackable, but where there's a will there's a way. I'm
>sure someone will eventually find a way around it.

My reasoning could be completely wrong (as always), but a CD-ROM is a
digital media. Therefore, if you start reading out every single bit of
it from the first to the last, and then transfer those bits in that
sequence to another digital media, you get a 100% copy of that CD-ROM.
I cannot think of a way to imprint a "watermark" that can be *read* by
standard hardware, but not *written*.

OTOH, I'd be glad if some serious copy protection existed. In theory,
the price per legitimate copy could drop as soon as pirated copies
weren't possible anymore. Then, I and the other poor souls who
actually *buy* their games wouldn't have to pay for the pirates as
well...

--
Wolfgang Preiss     \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Uni des Saarlands     \ and U.S. law. You have been warned.

ssra

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by ssra » Sat, 08 Aug 1998 04:00:00



>OTOH, I'd be glad if some serious copy protection existed. In theory,
>the price per legitimate copy could drop as soon as pirated copies
>weren't possible anymore. Then, I and the other poor souls who
>actually *buy* their games wouldn't have to pay for the pirates as
>well...

 THAT was the promise of the CD format, more stuff, cheaper to make,
impossible to rip (burners running 1000+ then) and CHEAPER to the
customer.
   Well since the market fot the first couple of years was copy proof
and we were all buying at same price it looks like it became what the
market would bear, and of course it has 49-54 on most titles, and
those that went under had ***on them (witness deer hunter) or those
that decided on a higher price $99 for back to baghdad went down in
flames.
        So in conclusion we buy the hype wait for the promise and
ignore the politics, (uhh sounds like washington doesnt it).
Bruce Kennewel

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Bruce Kennewel » Sat, 08 Aug 1998 04:00:00

Oh, without a doubt.

But that shouldn't prevent or deter the industry from continuing in
their efforts to make it more difficult for the "average" user to
pirate.
And it IS the every-day, average user who makes more illegal copies than
you or I can poke sticks at!!

The professionals will always be difficult to deter...just the same as
professional counterfeiters will always attempt to get around the latest
technology used in the printing of banknotes.  But we should not give up
the fight!


> where there's a will there's a way. I'm
> sure someone will eventually find a way around it.

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club  is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/
John Walla

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by John Walla » Sat, 08 Aug 1998 04:00:00

On Fri, 07 Aug 1998 22:13:08 +1000, Bruce Kennewell


>The professionals will always be difficult to deter...just the same as
>professional counterfeiters will always attempt to get around the latest
>technology used in the printing of banknotes.  But we should not give up
>the fight!

Not even when continuing the fight increases the price of the product
more than the piracy? Seriously, how much will duplication of a
"watermarked" CD cost? How much will it cost to develop the process
and the hardware to generate it? All of the customers will pay for
that, and then some kid will spend an hour in his bedroom making a
patch that tells the game not to look for the watermark while loading.
Et voila! Anyone can copy the CD for their mates, and you pay not only
for the pirated copies, but for the investment in technology and man
hours as well.

I'm not saying give it up, but I think it needs to be kept in
perspective. Make it a dual format disc with audio and data, and
require the CD to play the audio track while loading - very simple,
but it makes it more problematic to copy.

Probably the simplest thing is to make the game, the whole package,
worth buying - CART Racing's book is an excellent example, with the
book alone being worth the price.

Cheers!
John

Jo

"DEEP THROAT" speaks! (GPL info).

by Jo » Sat, 08 Aug 1998 04:00:00


>But that shouldn't prevent or deter the industry from continuing in
>their efforts to make it more difficult for the "average" user to
>pirate.

I agree, but ONLY if the copy-protection scheme doesn't inconvenience
legitimate customers. Personally I like doing full installs and then
putting the CD away, and I think I should be allowed to do so.

Furthermore, software companies need to stop being so paranoid - there
is not that much real money that is actually lost to piracy. They have
all these bogus figures x billion $ per year, but the reality is most
pirated versions are bought by people who can not or will not afford
the real version (i.e., in which case it is not really lost revenue,
since there would have been no sale anyway).

Joe


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