rec.autos.simulators

OT: Are CART cars faster than F1?

nobodyspecia

OT: Are CART cars faster than F1?

by nobodyspecia » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:45:57

(snipped)

Say, does my ass look big in this Nomex?  :-)

Gunnar Horrigm

OT: Are CART cars faster than F1?

by Gunnar Horrigm » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:28:16





> > > difference would be good 3 - 5sec per lap in F1s favour. On the other
> hand
> > > on the ovals things would be pretty close .... the CART car might even
> win
> > > because it's got longer wheelbase and is wider. All of F1's speed is
> > > attributed to the insane 'power to weight' ratio and the fact that this
> kind
> > > of 'power to weight' allows it to run the insane downforce configuration
> > > that it does (ie. unbelievable braking and cornering speeds). Just for
> > > example - when an F1 car is travelling at 250kph and the driver lifts
> off
> > > the the throttle, the car will be generating 4G of braking force (that's
> 4x
> > > the braking force of the best road cars) ... and that is without him
> > > touching the brake!!!

> > that sounds incredible.  not calling you a liar or anything, but do
> > you know this, or is it something you've heard?

> From F1 Racing magazine August 2001: "Taking your foot off the
> accelerator at full speed in F1 means 1.2g of longitudinal deceleration,
> which is the equivalent of a saloon braking heavily."

I've heard that the limit of good sports (not racing) tyres is around
1 G, so I'd say that's braking heavily, yes.  :)

anyway; I guess most of these 1.2G come from drag?

I believe 4G is 0.5G more than the requirement for what fighter pilots
are supposed to take withouth pressure suits.

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
                               myk, trygg og god.

Norman Blac

OT: Are CART cars faster than F1?

by Norman Blac » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:02:49

I looked at the F1 rules downloaded from FIA, and the CART rules downloaded
from CART.
F1 minimum weight was listed as 600Kg = 1320lbs.
CART minimum weight varied by track but was 1525-1550lbs.

Norman


> F1 undisputedly.

> F1 car weights 1/2 of what a CART car weights and produces 2x the
downforce
> that CART car does. Engine-wise the CART cars produce more power but not
> that much more .... BMW in F1 produces 900hp+ and CART car does not
produce
> that much more.

> What that means is that even though in the straighline acceleration the
> difference is not that great, but the F1 car stop in 2x the distance (not
> literaly) that a CART car does and can carry a lot more speed through
> corners (because of the downforce).

> Last of all, currently CART cars reach higher top speeds than F1 cars but
> that has everything to do with the tracks and very little to do with the
> cars. Top speed of an F1 (as well as CART) car is limited by the amount of
> downforce that it's got dialed in. Because F1 cars race on tracks with
> resasonably short straights and a lot of corners - they have
high-downforce
> configurations (though at Hockenheim they still reach 360kph/225mph). On
the
> other hand CART cars on ovals have a low-downforce configuration. If CART
> cars would run on the F1 tracks then they would run high-downforce
> configuration as well and their top speed would be nothing like what they
> reach on the ovals. On the other hand if an F1 car was run on an oval then
> it would be set up with a low-downforce configuration and would run the
high
> speeds that CART cars do.

> To my knowledge, if you put an F1 and CART cars on an roar course then the
> difference would be good 3 - 5sec per lap in F1s favour. On the other hand
> on the ovals things would be pretty close .... the CART car might even win
> because it's got longer wheelbase and is wider. All of F1's speed is
> attributed to the insane 'power to weight' ratio and the fact that this
kind
> of 'power to weight' allows it to run the insane downforce configuration
> that it does (ie. unbelievable braking and cornering speeds). Just for
> example - when an F1 car is travelling at 250kph and the driver lifts off
> the the throttle, the car will be generating 4G of braking force (that's
4x
> the braking force of the best road cars) ... and that is without him
> touching the brake!!!

> ps. F1s raced in Montreal good 10 - 15 years ago.

> regards,
> David Mocnay



> >On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:01:00 -0500, "Parke Cochran" <post for address>

> >>I know it's been asked a thousand times but which is faster, CART,
IRL,or
> >>F1 -
> >>I've never seen any data on this.  If they were all side-to-side which
> would
> >>win on an:

> >>OVAL (maybe Michigan)
> >>Road Course (say Laguna)

> >We'll see next year when both F1 and CART race at Montreal.

> >Does anybody know if this has happened before, CART and F1 racing on
> >the same circuit at the same time?

ymenar

OT: Are CART cars faster than F1?

by ymenar » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:26:21


> I thought I read/heard F1 won't be racing at Montreal in future?

No no, the date is set in stone.  The 2002 CART schedule has the Gilles
Villeneuve circuit as an event.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Catisfi

OT: Are CART cars faster than F1?

by Catisfi » Sat, 25 Aug 2001 02:53:48

sorry mate, i was referring to the ultimate Homer Simpsons over there - you
know, here in England the stereotypical American is fat, stupid, calls lager
'beer' and has no sense of sarcasm. Just as you think we are all
stiff-upper-lipped lah-dee-dah tea-drinking cricket-playing people. No
offence, but thats life.
Marc Fraio

OT: Are CART cars faster than F1?

by Marc Fraio » Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:41:49



Ah, but they need to use care here.  *How* will the course be changed?
One or the other of them will end up with lower lap times as a result,
and to the majority of folks, this will appear to mean that those
cars/drivers/whatever are faster.  Because I suspect most people won't
realize that a slightly different course was used.

This is like Sears Point, where I believe NASCAR uses a modified
version compared to everyone else.  They're always announcing a "new
track record" during NASCAR qualifying, but I guarantee you there is no
way on Earth that those pig-iron lunks they drive in NASCAR could beat
an Audi R8 around Sears Point (or around any circuit for that matter).
So maybe the track is slightly different, or maybe the announcers just
meant to say a "new (NASCAR) track record", not really being aware that
there is other racing than NASCAR....

        Marc

Norman Blac

OT: Are CART cars faster than F1?

by Norman Blac » Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:13:34

All racing series all have their own track records at each track. If you
want to know an absolute record then look at track record for each series
and take the lowest time.

Yes, this year Nascar started running a shortened Seard point course. It
takes out the "infield section". This is a section that is somewhat
invisible because of the hill the course drives around. The carousel turn is
the corner that goes around the hill, and then it goes back up the dragstrip
and the short and long course meet above the Ss.

Norman




> > Maybe one of the experts here will step in, but I'm fairly certain
there's
> > an agreement that the course layout will be changed slightly at least to
> > prevent this sort of comparison.  Crafty devils.

> Ah, but they need to use care here.  *How* will the course be changed?
> One or the other of them will end up with lower lap times as a result,
> and to the majority of folks, this will appear to mean that those
> cars/drivers/whatever are faster.  Because I suspect most people won't
> realize that a slightly different course was used.

> This is like Sears Point, where I believe NASCAR uses a modified
> version compared to everyone else.  They're always announcing a "new
> track record" during NASCAR qualifying, but I guarantee you there is no
> way on Earth that those pig-iron lunks they drive in NASCAR could beat
> an Audi R8 around Sears Point (or around any circuit for that matter).
> So maybe the track is slightly different, or maybe the announcers just
> meant to say a "new (NASCAR) track record", not really being aware that
> there is other racing than NASCAR....

> Marc

TRUSRS

OT: Are CART cars faster than F1?

by TRUSRS » Tue, 11 Sep 2001 06:36:47

CART sim would be awesome!
Thom j

OT: Are CART cars faster than F1?

by Thom j » Tue, 11 Sep 2001 06:54:25

CART!!!!!! hahaha See now you'll get me in trouble
her too.. "O" My!! :o)~

| CART sim would be awesome!

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.276 / Virus Database: 145 - Release Date: 9/3/2001


rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.