rec.autos.simulators

I just read the other day that Frentzen experienced 5.99 g's at Imola a few
years ago.

David G Fisher

Perhaps you didn't see the latest CART race?

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It's hard to say really. I think the CART cars have more horsepower, but I
think they are heavier though. CART cars have slicks (although Firestone),
were F1 cars have grooved tires (personally I would take a grooved michelin
over a slick Firestone any day, but that is just my preferance). The one
area that F1 is superior is the aerodynamics. This can be seen by watching
the last F1 race, as the BMW had the most powerful engine, but did not
compete against the Ferrari very well, due to either aerodynamics or
handling performace of the Ferrari. F1 cars can have more downforce though.
I'm pretty sure the Ferrari has better aerodynamics than any of the CART
cars.
So, all that being said, I think the F1 cars are vastly superior. Except on
ovals. I think on a large oval course, the CART cars with the more
horsepower would win. But every other course on the CART calender an F1 car
would win. I don't think a CART car could win any F1 race though. Even
Germany, because the speeds at Germany are not sustained, they are peek
after accelleration.

We'll see next year when both F1 and CART race at Montreal.

Does anybody know if this has happened before, CART and F1 racing on
the same circuit at the same time?

Lorne

F1 car weights 1/2 of what a CART car weights and produces 2x the downforce
that CART car does. Engine-wise the CART cars produce more power but not
that much more .... BMW in F1 produces 900hp+ and CART car does not produce
that much more.

What that means is that even though in the straighline acceleration the
difference is not that great, but the F1 car stop in 2x the distance (not
literaly) that a CART car does and can carry a lot more speed through
corners (because of the downforce).

Last of all, currently CART cars reach higher top speeds than F1 cars but
that has everything to do with the tracks and very little to do with the
cars. Top speed of an F1 (as well as CART) car is limited by the amount of
downforce that it's got dialed in. Because F1 cars race on tracks with
resasonably short straights and a lot of corners - they have high-downforce
configurations (though at Hockenheim they still reach 360kph/225mph). On the
other hand CART cars on ovals have a low-downforce configuration. If CART
cars would run on the F1 tracks then they would run high-downforce
configuration as well and their top speed would be nothing like what they
reach on the ovals. On the other hand if an F1 car was run on an oval then
it would be set up with a low-downforce configuration and would run the high
speeds that CART cars do.

To my knowledge, if you put an F1 and CART cars on an roar course then the
difference would be good 3 - 5sec per lap in F1s favour. On the other hand
on the ovals things would be pretty close .... the CART car might even win
because it's got longer wheelbase and is wider. All of F1's speed is
attributed to the insane 'power to weight' ratio and the fact that this kind
of 'power to weight' allows it to run the insane downforce configuration
that it does (ie. unbelievable braking and cornering speeds). Just for
example - when an F1 car is travelling at 250kph and the driver lifts off
the the throttle, the car will be generating 4G of braking force (that's 4x
the braking force of the best road cars) ... and that is without him
touching the brake!!!

ps. F1s raced in Montreal good 10 - 15 years ago.

regards,
David Mocnay

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Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
                               myk, trygg og god.

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

BTW, one other point to consider is that CART run slicks. Admittedly,
they are pretty hard since Firestone is in a monopoly. But with
Goodyear maybe returning, that would be a BIG advantage on low
downforce configurations (like Michigan or Hockenheim)

Rafe Mc

Maybe one of the experts here will step in, but I'm fairly certain there's
an agreement that the course layout will be changed slightly at least to
prevent this sort of comparison.  Crafty devils.

Hehe, they'd put cast iron suspension parts on takagi's car and tell him to
do his thing!

"> > difference would be good 3 - 5sec per lap in F1s favour. On the other
hand

Actually they talked about this in the Hungary race, modern F1 cars have
4G's on force under braking. Not just lifting the foot off the throttle.
The stats they gave are:
4G under braking.
3G under cornerning.
2G under accleration.