rec.autos.simulators

I'm sorry to ask about a topic that I'm sure has been discussed
previously. But, why is it that the engine sounds in GPL are so much
better and realistic than in a sim like F1RS, F1RC etc.? Thanks!

Back in '67 the helmets and earplugs were a lot worse, therefor you hear the
engine better. GP3 also has bad helmets and earplugs.

How do you know the engine sounds in GPL are more realistic?

Jerry Morelock

Are you talking about the original engine sounds or the third-party
replacements?

I think the replacements are great, but the ones that came with the game
.... weren't.

It's pretty much down to RPM. 15000rpm engines sound more like
an insect than a.. snoring lion. Play any GPL engine sound at double
speed and you'll hear pretty much what you're hearing in F1RC/GP3 etc.

        -Jari

Please remove SPAMLESS before replying via email. Thank you.
--

 ( Y )   :    ``I'm not blipping the throttle.
()~*~()  :      It's...    traction control :)
(_)-(_)  .                      --Greger Huttu

    Most modern F1 sims use digitized recordings of current machines.  but
when some of those are spinning at up to 22k per minute(alluded to by the
Speedvision anchors, last I heard 19krpm was the limit) that is pretty much
how they sound...rather weak compared to the full throated bellow of slower
spinning engines.
  One only has to listen to the sounds from a mixed engine race like LeMans.
You can close your eyes and tell when the Corvettes are passing by, or the
Judd's or other types.
With F1, since the formula is the same, about the only difference is how the
different manufacturers build their engines to be able to rotate that
quickly.  That's why the Mercedes/Ilmor in the Mclaren's sounds so high
pitched compared to the rest of the field, but all the cars sound like tinny
toys compared to car engines of the past, due mostly, to incredible
rpms.(nice sentence run-on eh?)
dave henrie

youll be amazed.

they scream and theres a really low bass line that is lost on tv that
literally makes your pants vibrate and your lungs bleed.

we dont quite get that in sims.

not sure why.

pez

It has something to do with the way the sound is modulated while changing revs. Notice
that the UBI cars will stutter under wheelspin but the Sierra cars won't. The engine sound
is created from a single droning sample that is stored on the hard drive. The sound file
is one pitch, or rev, usually a couple of seconds long, where the beginning and end of the
file are so close in sound that they can be looped, or played in endless repeats, without
noticing where one ends and the next begins. The sound on the disk does not go up or down
in pitch. That's the software's job. There is a function in the game that tells the audio
engine to play the pitch back at different rates considering how far down the throttle
pedal is pushed. I think you can buy those kinds of functions in software parts. Not
really sure as I'm not a game developer, by any stretch of the imagination, but I read
something somewhere... You get a kit for auto simulation sounds or something. My guess is
that UBI either went cheap or tried to make their own. And whether Sierra made their own
or not, they have a good audio engine. Imagine how hard it is to make a sound rise
steadily in pitch rather than 'step' up. I can't figure out how they do it. (although, I'm
not the sharpest cookie in the mill.) I have some samples I made at my local race track
that absolutely stun in GPL. In F1RS they sound exactly like the originals, shitty. Which
leads me to another factor.

Headroom. In digital sound there is a maximum volume that you can not exceed. 0. After 0
there is a lot of gobbledy gook. Bad things happen when 0 is surpassed. So, when summing
sounds, one must be careful to leave enough 'headroom' to allow all the channels that are
added to combine without exceeding (or even approaching, really) the dreaded 0. Analog
circuits are much more forgiving from our perspective. When they are 'clipped' due to
excessive levels, we tend to consider the distortion warm. (has to do with harmonics,
mostly) When digital distortion happens we tend to dislike it.

In games like F1RS and MPRS and F1RC and the EA thing I hear a lot of all the ugly things
that can be heard in poor software. Stepping or zipping. Dissonant harmonics. Phasing.
Clipping. A general lack of quality all around. Comes from refusing to spend the dough to
hire an actual sound guy. People who listen to sounds all day long, and manipulate them
every chance they get, really *do* hear things that the common mortal does not. Just like
a fighter pilot or chess champion might seem to be on another level, their instincts seem
to defy human capability. Intense training has developed their entire being to a point
that you and I simply cannot relate to. So, when 'Joe' the programmer hears phasing, he
may or may not recognize it, but he sure doesn't know what it is. Without knowing what
causes the problem there is no hope of writing or buying software to remedy it.

I think my favorite modulation engine is GP3. It's so smooth and accurate in how it
follows the pedal. I know I've heard as good or better in arcades but couldn't name them
offhand. There are a lot of developers that buy the right tools or hire the right people.

Ah well.... you get what you pay for.... and in our case, we get what UBI pays for.

--

Mark Jeangerard

1. Lowest common denominator - In the audio world the key is communication. A product has
to reach the intended audience with clarity. If the audience is in their cars on the
freeway, the dynamic range must be reduced to only a few dB to be understood. Sim audio
must work on the second worst sounding audio reproduction units in the world. The typical
computer audio playback system ranks just barely above TV, which is the bottom of the
barrel. Extremely reduced frequency and dynamic ranges, plus high levels of distortion and
noise don't give developers the incentive to produce high quality audio in their programs.
Plus, lot of low end could put a lot of cheesy speakers out of  commission when the cheesy
amps driving them square like mad. (Distort in a very heat inducing manner.)

2. Physics - While a good audio engineer may suspend your disbelief and articulate a
performance perfectly to you and millions of others who were never there to witness the
original, he/she can never make a pair of little plastic diaphragms that fit in your ear
sound like a Steinway. It's not physically possible to recreate the energy through them.

--

Mark Jeangerard

I learned this first hand the first time I saw top fuel cars drag
racing in person. I had been watching on TV for years but there is NO
way that television can even come remotely close to capturing what
these things sound and FEEL like. It is absolutely something that has
to be experienced.

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On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:56:10 -0600, "mark jeangerard"

I had never been to a car race before but I happened to be near Daytona the
week of the 500 a few years ago. I couldn't get tickets to the Winston Cup
race (there's a shock) so I went to the Busch race. The sound those cars
make could only be duplicated (maybe) in a Dolby-equipped movie theatre. No
home speakers can do it justice. The earth shakes.

Along the same topic, no "speed shot" on TV can compare to standing a foot
from the fence watching those cars come at you at 180+. I could not stop
myself from taking a step back. Your body is *convinced* you're gonna get
hit, and it wants OUT of there!

My apologies to all! I should have been more specific. After I made
this post, I did a few laps in F1RS. I should have done this prior to
the post. You are all right. I believe that I'm using a third party
engine sample, however I will try to better describe what sounds a bit
unrealistic to me on my system. When I barely press the throttle, the
sounds of the increasing engine RPMs seem to have a stair- step effect
in F1RS (I'm not talking about the shift between gears). On the other
hand, when you stomp the gas and keep the throttle down, the sounds
are fairly realistic. It just seems that the engine sounds in GPL
respond perfectly to the amount of pressure on the throttle and appear
to have a smoother sound curve. I hope this makes more sense. Thanks
to all!

Larry

Yep.  Top fuel and funny cars are in a league by themselves where sound is
concerned.  Standing along the fence at a professional drag race is
something that no words can describe.  The exhaust plumes from the nitro
cars are so powerful these days that they literally feel like shock waves
pushing against you when the cars pass by.

-Bill

You should be in my room with the sound turned up on my 8 speaker 3
subwoofer system with forcefeedback wheel and the intensor seat turned up
(throw in the 3d glasses).. load up GPL, youd think you were there in real
life..... or damn close to it! hehe.. I know im crazy.....

PassedYa