rec.autos.simulators

The spark that triggered this realisation was DW's comment at the Talladega
race : "If you get behind on your steering, that bad boy will whip right
from under ya!", after a driver lost it in a "push-loose" incident an spun
out.

Obviously, I know I'm doing 190MPH+ at these tracks and I know it's
important to anticipate my control actions as the "latency" of the nerve
system starts to be a factor at these speeds, but on plate tracks it doesn't
feel like you're going all that fast *and*, in a draft, it's hard to see far
enough ahead to "lead" the car.

With the AI at anywhere near a competitive setting I used to not be able to
keep "in" the pack because I had to back off regularly to combat massive
push and only the AI's clairvoyance kept me from creating massive pile-ups.
At the back of a draft, however, I could hang on unless things bunched up I
and I got close to the car in front. Odd that it didn't occur to me before
that responding to the car ahead instead of running my own line was getting
me into trouble in the first place.

So I tried with kite view and, once I got used to it, it was a lot easier to
drive the outside lane because my view wasn't obstructed by the other cars
anymore. This doesn't solve my problem because I don't want to use that view
in online competition, but at least I've realised what I'm doing wrong.

This is where I get to the question part (thanks for sticking with me)...
I've been practising getting my timing through the turns right and I am
getting better at it, but I can't do it consistently. Especially in the high
line, so my question is: how do you "hit your marks" consistently?

Perhaps the more experienced SS racers can shed some light on this?

Jan.
=---

Practice and concentration.  The car won't drive itself, no matter
how big and wide the track is.

True, but are you saying it's a matter droning around the track until the
turn in points and such are ingraved on one's subconcience, i.e. there are
no reference points whatsoever?

Jan.
=---

Kinda.  Although not as extreme, it's kind of like learning how to
complete a lap at Nurburgring in GPL.  You just gotta know how to do
it, and the only way you can learn it is by doing it over and over.
I'm sure there are visual cues you can use, but the visual cue *I*
use might eb complete bass-ackwards fron someone else's.  

I have to be honest that I don't really know where I turn in.  I
never really thought much about it. I don't think it's really a
tangible "spot on the track".

This all gets whacky in traffic, I get buffeted around like crazy anytime I
am near other cars so it is very hard to make that work.  I prefer the
highline in traffic on the corners as I don't take anyone else into the wall
with me when I do get behind on the steering.  The more laps I make the less
time I spend in the wall  hehe, wwe will see what happens in about an hour
here.

--
McWhom
-----------------------------------------------------------------

: > "John Simmons" wrote...
: > > <snip>
: > > Practice and concentration.  The car won't drive
: > > itself, no matter how big and wide the track is.
: >
: > True, but are you saying it's a matter droning around the track until
the
: > turn in points and such are ingraved on one's subconcience, i.e. there
are
: > no reference points whatsoever?
:
: Kinda.  Although not as extreme, it's kind of like learning how to
: complete a lap at Nurburgring in GPL.  You just gotta know how to do
: it, and the only way you can learn it is by doing it over and over.
: I'm sure there are visual cues you can use, but the visual cue *I*
: use might eb complete bass-ackwards fron someone else's.
:
: I have to be honest that I don't really know where I turn in.  I
: never really thought much about it. I don't think it's really a
: tangible "spot on the track".
:

However, at least in NR2003, the setups are also playing a major role in it.
That's easily proven by running a race with the Fast or Jasper setup, and
then running another with the excellent Daytona setup that Tim posted.  It
has NONE of the nose push-over problems that the Fast and Jasper setups do.

IMHO, Tim has managed to get the shocks _just right_ to deal with that bump
coming out of turn 4, which we never had to contend with before.

I think that bump has just as much to do with the problem as aero does.  It
unloads the suspension and Tim's setup manages to control that far better
than the Fast or Jasper setups do.  You'll notice the problem doesn't really
exist on the exit of turn 2.

-Larry

Larry

Jason

    John DiFool

--
============================================
Reach heaven far too high
============================================

Good question... deserves it's own thread.

Jan.
=---

Cloudy weather is like putting a turbocharger on your car.  Seriously,
I have to question whether the effect of cloud cover isn't seriously
blown of proportion horsepower wise.  I also wonder if a restricted
engine would really be picking up 5-10mph going from sunny conditions
to cloudy or hot conditions to cold.  I would think that the
horsepower would be limited to about the same extent in either
situation.

Sometime when I have time I suppose I'll create some replays in
different weather conditions with different chassis types and see how
the horsepower curves differ in n2003ra.

Jason

Nevertheless, the cornering requirement for the tires is under the
limit (usually, unless you car really sucks) in the center of the
corner at Daytona and Talladega, as the banking falls off the lateral
acceleration exceeds briefly what the tires can produce, exposing the
actual limit handling balance of the car.

Most individuals who try to fix this problem with conventional wisdom
of corner exit fixes screws up bad.  This is because the car is
actually going from a state of less roll in the the corners to one of
more roll exiting the corners.  Opposite of what is usually the case
at most tracks.

These effects can be seen especially at Daytona as tire grip falls off
on a long run.  If anybody wants to know why Lil E and the DEI boys
are fast at Daytona and Talladega,  I think you might be suprised to
hear that it has a lot to do with their chassis set-up (rather than
the typical aero and motor explainations that are given).

The guy who can reduce understeer on corner exit at Daytona is going
to kill everybody in the race.  The understeer or lack of grip on
corner exits raises the slip angles of all the tires creating more
cornering drag.  Any drag vectors when at a speedway hurts lap time.

Sir,

I do not know where you're "coming from" - but please do keep the
information coming, as this is excellent stuff! - Very learningful too.
Thanks!

--
ed_  (who just "saw the light"!)
http://rascar.racesimcentral.com