rec.autos.simulators

GP2's frame rate also sucks. The only racing sims with decent
unaccelerated frame rates are N2 and ICR2.

This is a very strange spec for a chip, I don't know what it means.

Joe

Ah well, perceptions always differ. I find GP2's frame-rate perfectly
acceptable, although it could undoubtedly be better with a full field
of AI. Regardless of that, as you can see from my previous message,
SODA's frame-rate most certainly doesn't suck when properly
configured, achieving an unaccelerated level of 25 & 30fps, the
standards we generally set.

It means Intel Pentium MMX running at a CPU multiplier of 3 and a
motherboard clock speed of 75Mhz" (means 225Mhz). Actually it was a
mistake, it should have been 2.5x75Mhz = 188Mhz. I only run my CPU at
225Mhz when I really need to (CPR, GP2, audio compression, 3D work
etc).

Cheers!
John

If you look at another message I posted, actually your frame-rate
should be pretty good. SODA is a total blast when you get the hang of
driving the car on the limit, as it is very different from anything
else out there just now. For a good lap time the car needs to be
"thrown" into the corner gently such that the rear pivots around, and
then drifting through the apex balancing gas and steering. It's good.

I would agree with that, provided that the game is unacceptable
without 3dFX, but I haven't seen too many games that truly need 3dFX
support to be playable. They need it to be seen at their best, but if
a game is still playable without 3dFX support I'll happily buy it.
Still, everyone's definition of "playable" is different, so I guess
SODA will get at least one more sale when the patch is done.

Cheers!
John

Here we disagree. Just about every flight sim I've tried (Flying Corps
comes to mind) was utterly unplayable until they had 3d card support.
I find this to be generally true of driving sims too, with the noable
exception of Nascar2 (though I will enjoy it a lot more as 3dfx I'm
sure).

Joe

Intel Pentium with MMX, clocked at 3x75 = 225MHz.

As from since Indianapolis500:The Simulation is out, I think most SERIOUS
simracers buy a simulation game for it's game engine and the AI. Not the
eye-candy. Go buy NFS2 if you want good frame-rate and see some good
graphics. Not that I don't like seeing some great graphics. It's add to the
realism.

Oh yeah 3dfx is dead. OpenGL and all those AGP cards are going to kill 3dfx.
You (and plenty of gamers) are in your egg-shell, thinking "I am a god I
have a 3dfx card I want everygame to be 3dfx or I don't play them." <g>

SODA is a blast.   IMHO the best game engine and AI on the market.  It's
outstanding.  This is not a flaming, I just want to make you realise the
fact that 3DFX isn't the only way to make games.

Thanks a lot,
May the downforce be with you, always
Good race at the Brickyard  (-o-)

Francois Menard,
http://www.awpss.com/

Actually it wasn't flight sims I had in mind, thinking more of Quake,
Total Annihilation and the like. Released without 3dFX and with a
patch added later, they were very playable even without 3dFX. Denying
yourself any game that doesn't have D3D or 3dFX on the box is a
blinkered attitude, if that is the initial and overriding criterion
used to select purchases (as the original poster described).

Cheers!
John

That's nice. Has nothing to do with my concern of course. I think most
SERIOUS sim-racers know that a REQUIRED feature in any sim is a solid
frame-rate (which is a completely seperate issue from eye-candy of
course, as all SERIOUS sim-racers know).

ROF,L! Congratulations - you've just qualified as a finalist for the
coveted ATSROU (All Time Stupidest Remark On Usenet) award.

Joe

Sure, for pure action games it's possible to have a usable frame-rate
- though just barely. I had to turn the resolution way down on
unaccelerated Quake.

That's not my criteria. But if a game has a poor frame rate (and IMO
SODA certainly does), then it makes perfect sense to wait for the
patch before buying it. If nothing else it will hopefully discourage
vendors from rushing to market before they've implemented full 3d
support. I've seen too many times where venders are all keen on 3d
support (in words) but the priority gets dropped way down the list
when the game ships (presumably because some manager thinks it won't
affect sales).

Joe

In your sickest dreams ..  OpenGL is nice, but it's not nearly as
supported as GLIDE ...  and developer support is king... just because
Carmack wants OpenGL to rule the roost, doesn't mean it will.

Doug

I disagree - it was announced long before the demo shipped.

Sounds like the Rendition version isn't so hot ...  hope GLIDE version
is better...

You may not agree, but many now feel 3dfx is essential part of a game --
I personally refuse to buy a game anymore that doesn't have it UNLESS i
have am satisifed w/the performance w/out it ... call me spoiled, but
...

Doug

John,

It's not about "depriving" myself -- the demo was slow w/out 3D
acceleration and many have said as much ... I think what I will do is
"deprive" myself of the frustration ... until the 3dfx patch comes.

Doug

3Dfx is dead, my ass.  Can you say Voodoo2?  It looks like, based on
early previews, that when the Voodoo2 ships, 3Dfx will have raised the
bar and everybody else will be playing catch-up....again.

Can you say AGP Voodoo2?  Let's wait for the 100 Mhz bus, though.

Hopefully GL:CPR will still have my attention when I replace my current
3Dfx card with a 3Dfx2.

--

Neil Yeatman          
Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

Hey, you can't talk to our leader like that!

--                        

So the way you say it, eye-candy isn't important to your eyes.  Frame-rate
is what you want. OK I understand your point (it's mine also). So take SODA,
put it in SVGA, and put ALL the graphics off.  Great frame-rate, no
eye-candy. And it's a blast. Greatest simengine ever (new word simengine!) .
So why do you flame them if the solution is present.  I only have a P100, no
3dCard, 2mb video card, and I have all the graphics off and it's a blast ! I
don't need to see clouds to enjoy thi sim. Only the fact of turning a good
lap in those trucks of hell is enough for me :-)

That is kewl. It's my second nomination of the year. I am also nominated for
the ATSROU with "I am the GOD of r.a.s." <g>  I am still a net.god   ;)

 With great respect,
May the downforce be with you,
Good race at the Brickyard,  (-o-)

Fran?ois Mnard, "ymenard" on NROS
Team member, Zombie Entreprise
Sponsored by AWPSS, http://www.awpss.com/

SimRacing director,  AWPSS
Official PR,                 AWPSS
Director,                     The SimRacing Hall-of-Fame
Co-director,                Light-Speed

- *Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking) * -