rec.autos.simulators

by **Tony Van Caute** » Thu, 16 May 2002 20:26:22

NASCAR cannot be compared to F1 .. the thing we (Europeans) dont like,
is going around in circles, it looks boring ... I know, it ISN'T, but it
sometimes looks that way ...

> Call me a whiner, but I'd rather see a RACE, than a
> choreographed/pre-determined show.

> One thing that'll probably come out of this; any diehard F1 fan that
> whines about Nascar has their head up their arse<G>

> -John

> > There are two main reasons why all this ranting and raving over Ferrari's
> > decision is a joke.

> > First, both drivers were told long before the end of the race to ease up,
> > not push, and not "race" each other. RB was not in a fight to the finish
> > with MS, only to be robbed of a win in the last 100 meters as so many want
> > to insist. In fact, MS was roobed of a chance for a legitimate win (I'm
> sure
> > the MS bashers will not show him lot's of sympathy for that), while RB
> would
> > of been forced into an illegitimate win if MS hadn't been ordered to pass.
> > Once they were told to hold back, not race each other, and preserve their
> > brakes, etc., the race was over between the two of them, and we have no
> way
> > of knowing who would of actually won. This is a HUGE fact that is being
> > ignored by most of the whiners.

> > Second, teammates have had their finishing position manipulated 1,000 of
> > times in every series that has teammates since the 50's (and even during
> the
> > beloved 60's). One teammate will hold back, sacrificing
> > their chance at the win, and block so the other can pull away and win a
> > race, or simply not challenge their teammate at all (as Waltrip has done
> > with Earnhardt). Teams
> > will intentionally***up the pit stops to switch drivers. Teammates
> don't
> > race each other with the same intensity or tactics they race another
> > competitor. Sometimes one teammate will simply slow down and/or pretend to
> >***up to let the other by. All the above is NO different than what RB
> and
> > MS did, except that it looks less obvious. Who cares what it looks like?
> The
> > results are the same, and only a fool doesn't understand that.

> > I know Ferrari/MS bashers got a boner over what happened Sunday and
> couldn't
> > control their reactions, but hopefully they can get a grip on themselves
> and
> > relax a little bit soon.
> > --
> > David G Fisher

--

rgds,
Tony

Tony.Van.Cauter.vcf
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by **Tony Van Caute** » Thu, 16 May 2002 20:31:08

maybe because he was told he was let to win the race, and his car was
low on fuel

just guessing

> How come MS set the fastest lap of the race with 2 laps to go, then?

--

rgds,
Tony

Tony.Van.Cauter.vcf
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by **David Butter** » Thu, 16 May 2002 22:06:33

Having thought about this again: I think what *really* annoys me is the
way in which the F1 teams go on and on about how they're in the
entertainment business, and that "the show's the thing", and then do
something which - in terms of the *show* - is disastrous. If - *if* -
F1 were totally honest, the entry in the listings magazine would look
like this:

2:00 Formula One PLC - Live coverage of the Ferrari board meeting, with
acid comments from Mark Blundell.

By all means, F1, run yourself to please the Stock Exchange - but don't
come running when the punters get bored and switch off. If you want the
however-many-billion viewers your sponsors need, then you're going to
*have* to trim to their desires a bit.

Last year, the chief executive of Liverpool Football Club - an
extremely successful outfit - said: "first and foremost we are not a
business, we are a football club". If only we could have a bit of that
attitude in F1.

--
"After all, a mere thousand yards... such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

The GPL Scrapyard: Back again! http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard

by **Jeffrey Haa** » Thu, 16 May 2002 23:46:12

On Tue, 14 May 2002 19:50:03 GMT, "David G Fisher"

>I know Ferrari/MS bashers got a boner over what happened Sunday and couldn't
>control their reactions, but hopefully they can get a grip on themselves and
>relax a little bit soon.

Well my wife didn't get that reaction, she was just disgusted....

My take on "not watching F1 again" is that I'm sure not going to get
up at 0 dark hours to watch a parade anymore. Unless Michelin can
get their tire act together, I'm letting TIVO do the watching and then
I'll get around to watching "the race" at my own leisure ..... There
still is nothing like the sound of those cars ....

Jeff

by **Mikkel Gram-Hanse** » Fri, 17 May 2002 00:03:41

I agree, but I say that Barichello is to blame for this... not the Bosses at
Ferrari.
They made a calculated decision which happens all the time in motorsports,
Barichello just made it look really bad by not playing by the unwritten
rules and slowing down over a few laps. I can understand Barichello's
frustration, but IMHO he shot himself in the foot, the sympathy of all us
racefans does not really count for much when he faces the Ferrari Bosses and
have to explain why he felt he had to spoil their reputetion in order to
vent his frustration.

It's not like Barichello was unaware of the way the Ferrari team works when
he signed to contract... right ??
He signed it anyway and then he ought to give his employer a bit more
positive PR instead of playing offended at the facts of life... Schumacher
IS #1 at Ferrari..

Why blame MS for what happened, does anyone really expect him to say "No
thank you" to 4 extra points when ordered to take them by the Ferrari bosses
?? I cannot see what MS did wrong, Barichello just made him look bad as
well... not the mark of a great #2 driver who ought to know the rules of the
cynical F1 game !

And no I'm not really to much into F1 anyway, but I find MS to be one of the
greatest drivers ever... why all the negative comments aimed at him. He does
his job, and he does it damned well !

Mikkel

by **Tony Van Caute** » Fri, 17 May 2002 00:39:33

huh ? Barrichello should have slowed down the last laps, and let him
overtake .. ??? and then probably say he had some failure or so ... That
would make F1 soooo much more nice ... More lies and more suspicious
stuff going on. Maybe they should hire somebody to drive Barrichello off
the track and then blame that guy (while handing him some money to keep
quiet)

But remember: make it look like an accident.

If MS is so much better, why did Barrichello arrive first then ? Didnt
find anything to sabotage on his car ? Sabotaged the wrong car ? Maybe
MS had an off-day .. Maybe he is human after all, maybe he CAN be beaten
by his team-mate.

> > In other words, since the VAST majority of people think what happened
> > stinks...........if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then it
> > must be...............<G>

> I agree, but I say that Barichello is to blame for this... not the Bosses at
> Ferrari.
> They made a calculated decision which happens all the time in motorsports,
> Barichello just made it look really bad by not playing by the unwritten
> rules and slowing down over a few laps. I can understand Barichello's
> frustration, but IMHO he shot himself in the foot, the sympathy of all us
> racefans does not really count for much when he faces the Ferrari Bosses and
> have to explain why he felt he had to spoil their reputetion in order to
> vent his frustration.

> It's not like Barichello was unaware of the way the Ferrari team works when
> he signed to contract... right ??
> He signed it anyway and then he ought to give his employer a bit more
> positive PR instead of playing offended at the facts of life... Schumacher
> IS #1 at Ferrari..

> Why blame MS for what happened, does anyone really expect him to say "No
> thank you" to 4 extra points when ordered to take them by the Ferrari bosses
> ?? I cannot see what MS did wrong, Barichello just made him look bad as
> well... not the mark of a great #2 driver who ought to know the rules of the
> cynical F1 game !

> And no I'm not really to much into F1 anyway, but I find MS to be one of the
> greatest drivers ever... why all the negative comments aimed at him. He does
> his job, and he does it damned well !

> Mikkel

--

rgds,
Tony

Tony.Van.Cauter.vcf
< 1K Download

by **redTe** » Fri, 17 May 2002 01:03:53

Ok..so how do you account for the plain fact that the majority of the people who were
there watching the race, the paying public, who were mostly Schummy and Ferrari fanatics,
were leading the booing chorus at the end ? Are you saying these ppl are not very
knowledgeable ?

by **Uncle Feste** » Fri, 17 May 2002 01:04:17

> I agree, but I say that Barichello is to blame for this... not the Bosses at
> Ferrari.

That's right, blame the little-guy employee instead of the corrupt
bosses whose improper, private decisions he helped to bring into the
public spotlight. :-/

Bravo RB.

--

Fester

"The Ferrari is a tainted vehicle and Formula 1 is no longer a sport. If
they had instructed me to do the same I would have told them to stuff
it." -- Stirling Moss

by **drin** » Fri, 17 May 2002 01:54:48

i think ferrari is worried about losing marlboro sponsorship and needs to
stock up on dinero with championships

by **Mikkel Gram-Hanse** » Fri, 17 May 2002 02:04:23

It's a tough world... Barichello knows the ugly rules of this so-called
"sports"
I don't like the facts either, but you gotta admit it could not come as such
a surprise to Barichello, and that he made Ferrari look much worse than
needed by making the desicion so obvious.
He is a Ferrari employee and his job is to make them look the best possible
under any & all circumstances... it's NOT pretty, but it's the tough facts
of F1 "racing"

F1 is IMHO a parade discipline and I can't understand why everybody is soooo
angered all of a sudden. It's been like this for years and years.

Mikkel

by **David G Fishe** » Fri, 17 May 2002 05:24:03

Sterling Moss says he wouldn't have, but Phil Hill would have, and did.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Irvine backs Schumacher.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

--
David G Fisher

by **Goy Larse** » Fri, 17 May 2002 07:04:48

> Sterling Moss says he wouldn't have, but Phil Hill would have, and did.

> http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.cfm?id=18997&series=5

> Irvine backs Schumacher.

> http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.cfm?id=18999&series=5

You almost had me convinced there David, until you brought Eddie Irvine
into the picture.......

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Uncle Feste** » Fri, 17 May 2002 12:35:28

>>That's right, blame the little-guy employee instead of the corrupt
>>bosses whose improper, private decisions he helped to bring into the
>>public spotlight. :-/
>>Bravo RB.
>>Fester

> It's a tough world... Barichello knows the ugly rules of this so-called
> "sports"
> I don't like the facts either, but you gotta admit it could not come as such
> a surprise to Barichello, and that he made Ferrari look much worse than
> needed by making the desicion so obvious.
> He is a Ferrari employee and his job is to make them look the best possible
> under any & all circumstances... it's NOT pretty, but it's the tough facts
> of F1 "racing"

> F1 is IMHO a parade discipline and I can't understand why everybody is soooo
> angered all of a sudden. It's been like this for years and years.

Because in any line of work, there is a line the employer should never
cross. Ferrari crossed it. Come to think of it, there is a line that
*governments* should never cross either & it's up to the citizens to
refuse to go along then. We are people, not mindless puppets.

Most of us anyways. :-)

--

Fester

"The Ferrari is a tainted vehicle and Formula 1 is no longer a sport. If
they had instructed me to do the same I would have told them to stuff
it." -- Stirling Moss

by **Uncle Feste** » Fri, 17 May 2002 12:45:59

> Sterling Moss says he wouldn't have, but Phil Hill would have, and did.

> http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.cfm?id=18997&series=5

> Irvine backs Schumacher.

> http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.cfm?id=18999&series=5

Only proves that there are both corrupt & principled people left in this
world. By your account, the corrupt outnumber the principled 3 to 1. :-P

--

Fester

"The Ferrari is a tainted vehicle and Formula 1 is no longer a sport. If
they had instructed me to do the same I would have told them to stuff
it." -- Stirling Moss

by **Mikkel Gram-Hanse** » Sat, 18 May 2002 01:44:08

point taken.... but the important aspect for me is that people should
remember that F1 is a TEAM "sports", the individual driver is not above the
team.
Barichello KNEW he was a part of a team, and his role within this team was a
well defined (and quite shitty) one.

Bottom line: I think it stinks as well, but I fail to understand why Ferrari
is being solely accused of ruining the F1 game. This has been going on for
as long as I have watched F1.... just not as blatantly obvious. Team orders
is an integrated part of F1 and Ferrari did not all of a sudden*** the
spirit of F1, it has been laying on it's back for ages anyway ;)

Mikkel

rec.autos.simulators

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