rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR season recap

Mike Grand

RASCAR season recap

by Mike Grand » Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:51:57

I think RASCAR was started for the racers that have frequented the newsgroup
over the years. I know myself, Tim White and Don Wilshe have been here
almost since it's inception as a newsgroup. There are quite a few
accomplished racers that lurk on RAS and hopefully we will see some more
next season. I was impressed with alot of the guys we raced with and we had
some really good races.

For what it's worth, Tim White was there for the first RASCAR race and I
started racing about the 3rd race. Wilshe was there for the 2nd race.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com





> > > Results of the last 2 races at:
> > > http:\\www.umich.edu\~epickett\rascar.html

> > > Our largest field was 36 drivers, at the first Talladega race(where
> > > else?).  41 races, 4 drivers won 3 or more: Ginger(7), T_White(6),
> > > MGrandySr(4), zugzug1(3)

> > > The first 3 names won 3 in a row at some point, T_White did it TWICE.
> > > Damn, is the competition just that bad, or are these guys just that
> > > GOOD...?

> > > Eldred
>    Remember Rascar was started as an outlet for those without much
expience
> with oval racing.  As such, when a few joined in that had years of
> experience...they cleaned up.  Not that these guys aren't good, drop them
in
> any league and they'd do well dang near every week.   But Rascar just
didn't
> start with guys who had a wealth of Nascarian knowlege.  Almost a learners
> league (not that many weren't great simmers, just unfamiliar with the
needs
> of Nascar.)
>    I suspect next year a few more will step up to the plate.
> dave henrie

> ---
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Jan Verschuere

RASCAR season recap

by Jan Verschuere » Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:10:31

Found it. Will respond there.

No. First off because, in view of the aggravation you seem to give yourself
over this issue, it would be very cruel to toy with your sensitivities like
that and, secondly, because it's there in black and white (red and blue,
actually).

I have here on my computer a set of laps you posted on your site
corresponding to your previous GPLRank. If I compare any of this set to a
corresponding fast lap of my own, the G-G plot is telling. In slow to medium
speed turns I'd estimate you have at least 10% more area "under the curve"
than I do. That means, in slow to medium speed turns, you corner close to
the limit of adhesion for longer than I do. What's more, at e.g. Watkins
Glen, you make almost as good a use of available traction as Gregor Huttu
did in his earstwhile 1m03s record lap in those types of turns. Where Gregor
and, to a certain extend, myself make up time on you is the fast stuff and
using more of the road/better lines.

This leads me to conclude you're suffering a perception/confidence problem.
Not 100% sure, but at the very least it's also consistent with you always
saying "When I push any harder, I fall off"(1) and your relative N2k2
performance(2).

Whether this is due to your rig, your perception of the game "reality" or to
some physical/neurological problem, is hard for me to determine 100% sure
without actually physically present as you drive, but I'm fairly confident
my deduction is correct. Let's check...

I think it's safe to assume there's nothing wrong with you physically to
prevent you from doing well in the sim, as you would have trouble perceiving
the dimensions of your car and your position on the road in real life too
(you're not prone to "parking accidents" or "kerb scrapes", are you?).

I also find it hard to believe there is something seriously wrong with your
setup. IIRC you use a TSW2, which is as competent as non-FF wheels get,
basically, and I assume any persistent fault with your computer wouldn't go
unnoticed by yourself either.

Which leaves your perception of the game reality and your approach/attitude
to driving. These can be worked on by observing how other drivers go about
their business, but the catch is you can't do something unless you believe
_you_ can do it (or work up to it). You need to be able to pick up on what
someone else does differently or take in some advise (solicited or
otherwise) and visualize how you will apply this to your driving ("I can see
myself doing that"). I think this is one of your major stumbling blocks.
Perceiving what the car is doing now and then predicting what the car will
do in response to a control action goes hand in hand with confidence. You
can see the makings of a vicious circle here (1 bis). In your case, I'm
confident that if we can find an angle to even just eat away at the negative
feedback, subsequent improvements might surprise you.

Sorta like that, but without the dress code. <g>

Jan.
=---
Remarks:

(1) It's natural for people to push where they're confident. Trouble with
doing so in a racing car is: areas where you are relatively confident are
areas where you are _already_ using a lot of the available traction. In your
case, any more than "nearly all" (for your chosen line) means exiting the
racing surface.

(1 bis) It therefore follows it's safer to push where one is not so
confident as less of the traction budget is already spent there. Indeed,
some of the places you seem ill at ease at can be taken (a lot) faster by a
(small) adaptation in approach. However, this is where the vicious circle
nature of confidence comes into play. Unless you are really, truly, utterly
convinced and confident you can go _a little_ quicker (no use scaring
yourself witless) at location X by taking action Y before you actually go
out and do it, you will second guess yourself as you make the control
action, cramp up and go off regardless of how close to the limit you would
have actually been, thus reinforcing the "slow down" (or "stay away from the
edges") trigger for this location.

Have you read those Keith Code books I told you about ("Twist of the wrist"
volumes I/II and "The soft science of road racing motorcycles"), BTW? -He
deals with this sort of stuff a lot and is better at explaining stuff you
can do to prevent it happening (and draws better diagrams than me;-)). If
they're not in your local library have them transferred from somewhere else.
It's worth the hassle if you read them with an open mind.

(2) It's interesting to note your relative N2k2 performance is better at
places which are (nearly) flat out (Daytona, Michigan, Texas), which have
relatively shallow banking (IMS, Pocono, Homestead) or where overall speeds
are low (New Hampshire, Bristol) and less so at places where confidence at
pre-empting the car is a must to keep your speed/use the banking to full
effect (Darlington, C***te, Atlanta).

Eldre

RASCAR season recap

by Eldre » Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:02:59


Whoa - thanks for the reply!  I've saved it for future reference.

<snip technical observation>

Nope - not at all.  I don't have a problem in my real car.  I can put it
exactly where I want to.  I occasionally test myself(following tire tracks,
trying to run over a paper cup in the road, etc.).

This is still possible.  Since I've never driven on anyone else's rig, I don't
have anything to compare it to.  There may be something wrong that I've
accepted as 'normal'.  One of my leagues had a LAN party/race weekend in
Wisconsin this year.  I couldn't afford to go.  That would have been a good
opportunity to get feedback or try a different rig.  Maybe next year...

Ok, that makes sense.

Sounds like something another league mate once said regarding being in the
throttle at track out...

I bought both "Twist of the Wrist" books on your suggestion.  I glanced at
them, but didn't really have the time to read them properly.  Then, I forgot I
even HAD them... :(  I'll have to try again - I'll have plenty of time over the
Christmas holiday.  I don't have "The Soft Science" - I don't remember you
mentioning that one before.

Which is also probably why I'm better(or at least more confident) at certain
GPL tracks.  Monza, Zandvoort, Zeltweg.  I've won league races at all those
tracks this year.  Maybe they all have the same 'style' required to get around
them well.

Lots to ponder - thanks, Jan!

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Jan Verschuere

RASCAR season recap

by Jan Verschuere » Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:12:10

You're welcome.

I think you could benifit from that... having another TSW user try your rig
could also be insightfull.

That is a confidence thing pure and simple. _Knowing_ you won't run out of
road as you apply the throttle is key to being decisive enough to not
actually run out of road.

Cool, get cracking... you won't regret it. I can't remember whether I did or
didn't mention The Soft Science, but start thinking about planning your
approach to corners, using your attention efficiently etc.. by reading the
Twist books first. You can leave the "pure" bike stuff out, although I found
that very interesting as well.

They all have important corners which suit you, yes.

There always is and there always will be. Once you can drive the cars,
everything further is brainpower, not horsepower.

It's, IMO, a common misconception that the ability to (sim)race is something
one is born with or not, i.e. that it can't be learned. While there is some
truth in this statement, it is not all that black&white. It is true that raw
speed is either there or it isn't and that anyone who doesn't have raw speed
doesn't have a chance in hell to consistenly do well at the top level.

However, those who have raw speed still have to learn to harness it to be
consistent winners (and stay alive). This requires practise. Here's where
the myth originates... motorracing is hideously expensive to learn how to do
well. Almost no-one can personally afford to pay for the learning curve.
This is why only those with raw speed get the sponsoring and the drives.

This way of thinking gets transposed to simracing, but given that we do have
a reasonable amount of time on our hands and the financial strain is greatly
reduced, anyone can learn to simrace cars competently, IMO (like "gentlemen
drivers" do in RL), just like anyone can learn to play golf, the piano,
etc... to a certain standard, but only very talented people make it their
profession.

Learning to simrace requires dedication, practise and the willingness to ask
for and take on board advise, even for the very talented (who make it look
"easy", <g>).

Jan.
=---


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