rec.autos.simulators

by **Olav K. Malm** » Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:03:22

> Gunnar, I saw on Eurosport that they referred to Moto GP as a 'Formula 1'
> equivalent, and Superbikes as a 'Touring Car ' equivalent. My question is,
> why is that? SBK uses 750hp engines, MotoGP only 500. Are the riders
> technically so much better in MotoGP? Haga seems to be holding his own these
> days, after a slow start..
> It's a serious question, I just don't know the answer!

I tend to think about MotoGP as the F1 equivalent and SBK as the CART
equivalent. MotoGP has the names, fames and fast machines, but SBK has
the balls out full power attitude.

:)

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

by **Gunnar Horrigm** » Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:10:45

> Gunnar, I saw on Eurosport that they referred to Moto GP as a 'Formula 1'
> equivalent, and Superbikes as a 'Touring Car ' equivalent. My question is,
> why is that? SBK uses 750hp engines, MotoGP only 500.

750cc, not 750hp. :) and that eurosport guy was wrong. OTOH,
eurosport guys say a lot of strange things. they go equally fast
around the track, and I for one don't believe the statement that
gp-bikes are more extreme than superbikes holds true anymore.

nope. not in general, anyway.

superbikes are bigger and heavier, and generally more bulky, yes. but
let's take a look at qualifying laptimes for this year's Donington
Races:

500cc GP:

1 Shinya Nakano 1:32.515
2 Alex Barros 1:33.071
3 Loris Capirossi 1:33.188
4 Kenny Roberts 1:33.307
5 Sete Gibernau 1:33.352
6 Max Biaggi 1:33.599
7 Carlos Checa 1:33.606
8 Norick Abe 1:33.619
9 Tohru Ukawa 1:33.654
10 Valentino Rossi 1:33.664

WSB:

1 Steve Hislop 1:32.651
2 Neil Hodgson 1:33.093
3 Perfrancesco Chili 1:33.282
4 Tadayuki Okada 1:33.518
5 Ruben Xaus 1:33.699
6 Troy Corser 1:33.774
7 Stephan Chambon 1:33.871
8 Troy Bayliss 1:33.949
9 Akira Yanagawa 1:34.021
10 James Toseland 1:34.067

not much difference there, eh?

http://www.eurosport.com/family.asp?familyID=10&LangueID=0 for lap times.

--
Gunnar
#31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
to err is human -- to forgive is bovine.

by **Gunnar Horrigm** » Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:21:31

> > Gunnar, I saw on Eurosport that they referred to Moto GP as a 'Formula 1'
> > equivalent, and Superbikes as a 'Touring Car ' equivalent. My question is,
> > why is that? SBK uses 750hp engines, MotoGP only 500.

> 750cc, not 750hp. :) and that eurosport guy was wrong. OTOH,
> eurosport guys say a lot of strange things.

on second thought, they're right. GP500 bikes are basically
prototypes, whereas superbikes are production bikes.

can't wait to see four-strokes in GP next year.
--
Gunnar
#31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
to err is human -- to forgive is bovine.

by **Bad-Bo** » Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:11:16

> > GP500 is a GP Bike Sim and is not related to the World Superbike Series.

> they're both motorcycles, so it is kinda related. :)

> > GP500 is hard because it is tough racing a two stroke 500cc bike that
has
> > 1/2 the weight of a Superbike and the same horsepower as a Superbike.

> bullshit. GP500 bikes and superbikes have about the same horsepower.
> and 500's aren't "half the weight". they're about 140Kg, wheras
> superbikes are 170-180 or somesuch. and cornering techniques are the
> same for just about all bikes.

The BIGGEST difference in real life is that a two-stroke i.e. MotoGP (GP500)
engine will give almost NO engine braking.
The big 750/1000cc 4-strokes do.

GP500 'feels' right in that you HAVE to brake.
SBK also 'feels' right in that you can lose lots of speed just by throttling
off.

I enjoy both :-)

Bad-Boy

by **Bad-Bo** » Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:29:06

Mixed messages - trust Eurosport !!!
MotoGP is currently a two-stroke 500cc engine formula.
WSB are all 4 stroke, 1000cc for 2 cylinders, 900cc for 3 and 750cc for
4-cylinders.
The formula WSB use to 'balance' the different characteristics of 2/3/4
cylinder engines based on cc just is NOT right.
It has become a two bike series.

New rules in WSB are going to redress this.
MotoGP are from next season permitting 4-stroke engines.

The differences will then be down to what you're permitted to do with the
engine/frame.

WSB has to have a "production" frame, dimensions and engine.
GP doesn't.

BOTH consider themselves the "pinnacle" of motorsport.

It's Sportscart GT, LMS all over again :-(

Bad-Boy

by **Bad-Bo** » Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:32:30

....

Not that simple.

This years MotoGP had damp track.

Also WSB permits local entries - hence Steve on his BSB bike.
Local knowledge likely had something to do with this :-)

I agree that there's not much difference, except perhaps a GP bike needs
more RIDER SKILL to handle the power delivery and the lack of
engine-breaking.
eg. look at how poorly Walker is doing on a 2-stroke v. Hodgson in WSB -
these guys were 1-2 in BSB last year.

Bad-Boy

by **Gunnar Horrigm** » Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:35:05

> ....
> > let's take a look at qualifying laptimes for this year's Donington
> > Races:

> > 500cc GP:

> > 1 Shinya Nakano 1:32.515
> ...
> > WSB:

> > 1 Steve Hislop 1:32.651
> > 2 Neil Hodgson 1:33.093

> Not that simple.

> This years MotoGP had damp track.

rats! :)

oh well. they're pretty close anyway, but I can't be bothered to type
in another comparison.

so does GP, but it's a lot more expensive, probably.

sure. but only the top duo were local. the rest of the pack were
right up their tailpipes.

I don't think it's down to skill. it's a bit different, sure, but I
don't buy that one is inherently more difficult than the other.

sure. but it's his first year. readjustment takes time.

--
Gunnar
#31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
silence is FOO!

by **Gunnar Horrigm** » Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:18:30

> GP500 'feels' right in that you HAVE to brake.
> SBK also 'feels' right in that you can lose lots of speed just by throttling
> off.

must be something wrong here, then, as the bikes in SBK2001 will
happily coast along on autopilot when I relase the throttle.

--
Gunnar
#31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
gitaren er en sjingke

by **REDLINE42** » Mon, 16 Jul 2001 04:00:56

Ahhhh..... But the sound of the 2 stroke GP bikes is awesome, (Ya gotta like
2 strokes).

I can still hear the sound of Kenny Roberts Yamaha TZ 750 going up through
the gears down the back straight during the Daytona 200 of the mid 70's in
my dreams. And then during it all over again after the chicane, and this was
from the turn 1 banking area. Sweet !

by **Tim Deatherag** » Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:04:59

Gunnar,

My point was to say that GP500 is not a SBK game

I like the super acceleration of a 500cc GP and the prototype nature of GP
bikes. IT's obvious that SB have high horseoower because of the wheelies and
burnoots they can do !!!

I raced minibikes with Fast Freddie Spencer in 1970 so I'm partial to him
(and GP racing). as one of the great GP riders of the modern era.

BTW, Gunnar where are you from???

Tim A. Deatherage

www.timdeatheragecpa.com

> > GP500 is a GP Bike Sim and is not related to the World Superbike Series.

> they're both motorcycles, so it is kinda related. :)

> > GP500 is hard because it is tough racing a two stroke 500cc bike that
has
> > 1/2 the weight of a Superbike and the same horsepower as a Superbike.

> bullshit. GP500 bikes and superbikes have about the same horsepower.
> and 500's aren't "half the weight". they're about 140Kg, wheras
> superbikes are 170-180 or somesuch. and cornering techniques are the
> same for just about all bikes.

> --
> Gunnar
> #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
> gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

by **Gunnar Horrigm** » Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:04:35

> My point was to say that GP500 is not a SBK game

> I like the super acceleration of a 500cc GP and the prototype nature of GP
> bikes. IT's obvious that SB have high horseoower because of the wheelies and
> burnoots they can do !!!

they do have high horsepower, of course. but both GP bikes and
superbikes have around 180hp or so. GP bikes had quite a lot more a
few years ago, before the new fuel regulations.

seriously? I too consider him one of the greatest, and I never met
the guy. :)

Norway. not a good place for bike racing. we tend to get a little
more wet-weather training than we really want. :)

--
Gunnar
#31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
"a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

by **Philip D'Amat** » Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:26:56

I'd like to play GP500 again, but it's not recognizing my USB MSFF (which
works in other games). When I played it, I played with a MS SW 3D Pro
(required the SW software v3 to function and was always conflicting with my
other controllers, so I removed it). Is there a game controller config file
that I could edit or delete, or is the USB MSFF wheel just not going to work
with GP500?

--

Philip D'Amato

<snip>
> As for GP500. I've left it for a while and have only recently gone
> back to it. Its amazing how good it has withstood the competition.
> By adding the latest updates from the gp500 store it is still the best
> around. Don't forget the mea***er sound patch as well :) I've
> written a general purpose file swapper util that i think can be
> configured for gp500 to allow you to select different bikesets, etc.
> Must see if it would be useful for the community at large.

> Regards all,
> istoff

> "Its easy to get lost in thought
> if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

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