rec.autos.simulators

by **Eldre** » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:14:47

>Wrong interpretation... it means you have be focused to do everything within
>your power to win/finish as high as possible. If you resign yourself to
>losing you won't be ready to take advantage when the opportunity presents
>itself. What's more, if you allow yourself to lose the drive to win, you'll
>start slipping back even further than you already might be. You have to
>"want" to lead, "want" to win, otherwise you'll get yourself all in knots
>when you do get a break and won't be able to pull it off. You must have had
>"one that got away"... think back to exactly what made you lose the plot.
>I'm sure it wasn't because of keeping focus and solid lapping on your part.

>Trust me, I thought it was bogus too but, to my amazement, I found it really
>isn't. Back when I still objectively thought: "well, if this and that
>happens, I might win this", I actually didn't win a thing. Even when reality
>exceeded my wildest fantasies and I really should have. Marko Vittanen
>spurred me into forcing myself to "believe" and, while I haven't won that
>much to date, I did start winning once in a while and, most importantly,
>started bringing home more solid finishes.

>YMMV, of course, but I'm "a believer" now. I race to win. Every time, all
>the time.

Well, I know realistically that I *don't* have a chance to win in most of my
leagues. I'm 5-6 seconds slower per lap. All the positive thinking in the
WORLD won't help me overcome that kind of deficit. So, I really DO need "this
or that to happen". Meaning, I need the faster guys to crash or disco. That's
why I prefer races with no shift-r. Then, the fast guys who crash can't repair
and shoulder their way past me again...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Asbj?rn Bj?rnst** » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:28:19

> Well, I know realistically that I *don't* have a chance to win in
> most of my leagues. I'm 5-6 seconds slower per lap. All the
> positive thinking in the WORLD won't help me overcome that kind of
> deficit. So, I really DO need "this or that to happen". Meaning, I
> need the faster guys to crash or disco. That's why I prefer races
> with no shift-r. Then, the fast guys who crash can't repair and
> shoulder their way past me again...

I think this is my cue...

So, when is the next online GP due?
--
-asbjxrn

by **Andre Warrin** » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:00:00

I know what you mean, but Jan is right.. if you start with the idea
you will lose, you WILL lose :)
I suffer the same problem though.. I'm in a league, and there are a
couple of fast guys in it. Allthough our laptimes are very close,
everytime we start a race I lack confidence..

Last week we had a race at Kyalami. I qualified second, with the top 5
qualifying times being very close. The race started, and after the
first lap I was third, with the first and second guys allready being a
couple of seconds in front of me. I got nervous, started making little
errors, and after a couple of laps I had my first spin.

2 guys overtook me, I reckognized them, and I knew that I could beat
those two quite easily.. quickly back on the track, the guy then
driving in 4th position was 7-8 seconds in front of me. Suddenly I
felt very confident, was back in the 'zone' and I was flying, getting
1-2 seconds closer to nr.4 each lap.

On the 11th lap I made a huge mistake though, overbraked and crashed
my car. End of the race. But still it was weird, driving behind a fast
guy gave my bad laptimes and unconfident driving, while driving behind
someone slower made fast and confident.

When I quit the race I noticed I had set the fastest laptime, faster
than the guys on 1th and 2nd position..

Racing is for a big part a psycholigical game :)

Andre

by **Eldre** » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 04:25:34

(Asbj?rn Bj?rnstad) writes:

>> Well, I know realistically that I *don't* have a chance to win in
>> most of my leagues. I'm 5-6 seconds slower per lap. All the
>> positive thinking in the WORLD won't help me overcome that kind of
>> deficit. So, I really DO need "this or that to happen". Meaning, I
>> need the faster guys to crash or disco. That's why I prefer races
>> with no shift-r. Then, the fast guys who crash can't repair and
>> shoulder their way past me again...

>I think this is my cue...

>So, when is the next online GP due?

Sure, you're the only 3-time winner... Actually, you're the only MULTIPLE race
winner. <g>
Well, I hadn't thought of it. Maybe the weekend after Thanksgiving. Most
Americans have that Friday off, but the Euros wouldn't... So, the Sunday would
probably be better.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 04:25:33

>>I never saw Jan's original post, but:
>>Jan, while I agree with this in theory, you have to at least be close in
>>performance to the other drivers. If the drivers are 5-6 seconds faster
>than
>>you at a particular track, and they keep it on the track, there's no WAY you
>>can win.
>>Now if you're only about a second off, maybe you can force someone into a
>>mistake. Otherwise, you need more speed.

>>Eldred

>I know what you mean, but Jan is right.. if you start with the idea
>you will lose, you WILL lose :)
>I suffer the same problem though.. I'm in a league, and there are a
>couple of fast guys in it. Allthough our laptimes are very close,
>everytime we start a race I lack confidence..

Yeah, but at least you're in the same time zone in performance. In my
league(s), I'm routinely lapped even though I seldom spin out. Guys will
crash, and I pass them. They shift-r, pass me again, and (usually)crash again.
I've finished 4th in a race where the winner had to shift-r 2 or 3 times. It
would be silly for me to even THINK that I could beat these guys in a fair
fight. It would be like trying to beat an Indycar in a Nascar at Michigan. It
ain't gonna happen....

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Rob Adam** » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 06:28:58

Thanksgiving?!? That's already past ;)

(Rob, proud Canadian).

by **Asbj?rn Bj?rnst** » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:22:46

> (Asbj ?rn Bj ?rnstad) writes:

> >> Well, I know realistically that I *don't* have a chance to win in
> >> most of my leagues. I'm 5-6 seconds slower per lap. All the
> >> positive thinking in the WORLD won't help me overcome that kind of
> >> deficit. So, I really DO need "this or that to happen". Meaning, I
> >> need the faster guys to crash or disco. That's why I prefer races
> >> with no shift-r. Then, the fast guys who crash can't repair and
> >> shoulder their way past me again...

> >I think this is my cue...

> >So, when is the next online GP due?

> Sure, you're the only 3-time winner... Actually, you're the only
> MULTIPLE race winner. <g>
> Well, I hadn't thought of it. Maybe the weekend after Thanksgiving.
> Most Americans have that Friday off, but the Euros wouldn't... So,
> the Sunday would probably be better.

I was actually thinking more of the races with no shift-r part than
the winning part.

I could use an excuse to fire up GPL again. I haven't raced or
practiced for more than a month I think.
--
-asbjxrn

by TL » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:27:04

Must have been Daryl that had you psyched rather than me. :) Surprised
having Larry on your tail didn't bother you though. I actually got
comfortable and confident in front of Daryl until I had a couple of slow
laps and had him drafting me down the front straight with 2 laps to go.
Must be getting to be a more confident driver as I turned my fastest lap
on the last lap with Daryl threatening to sneak away with a win after
I'd led most of the laps. But maybe we should switch to Tom Pabst's
league, hard to feel pressure when you only have to turn 1:33s at Monza
to win. :)

Actually what I thought was most interesting in the race report was the
lap consistency information. The top three finishers had the most
consistent laps. As for thinking you'll win helping, it was funny the
first half dozen laps I was thinking that I couldn't pull away from
Daryl, but after that started looking at it as Daryl couldn't catch up
to me. The confidence made it much easier to concentrate on driving
rather than what to do when/if Daryl tried to pass me for the lead.

Terry

>>I never saw Jan's original post, but:
>>Jan, while I agree with this in theory, you have to at least be close in
>>performance to the other drivers. If the drivers are 5-6 seconds faster than
>>you at a particular track, and they keep it on the track, there's no WAY you
>>can win.
>>Now if you're only about a second off, maybe you can force someone into a
>>mistake. Otherwise, you need more speed.

>>Eldred

> I know what you mean, but Jan is right.. if you start with the idea
> you will lose, you WILL lose :)
> I suffer the same problem though.. I'm in a league, and there are a
> couple of fast guys in it. Allthough our laptimes are very close,
> everytime we start a race I lack confidence..

> Last week we had a race at Kyalami. I qualified second, with the top 5
> qualifying times being very close. The race started, and after the
> first lap I was third, with the first and second guys allready being a
> couple of seconds in front of me. I got nervous, started making little
> errors, and after a couple of laps I had my first spin.

> 2 guys overtook me, I reckognized them, and I knew that I could beat
> those two quite easily.. quickly back on the track, the guy then
> driving in 4th position was 7-8 seconds in front of me. Suddenly I
> felt very confident, was back in the 'zone' and I was flying, getting
> 1-2 seconds closer to nr.4 each lap.

> On the 11th lap I made a huge mistake though, overbraked and crashed
> my car. End of the race. But still it was weird, driving behind a fast
> guy gave my bad laptimes and unconfident driving, while driving behind
> someone slower made fast and confident.

> When I quit the race I noticed I had set the fastest laptime, faster
> than the guys on 1th and 2nd position..

> Racing is for a big part a psycholigical game :)

> Andre

>>Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
>>Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
>>GPLRank - under construction...

>>Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
>>with experience...
>>Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Andre Warrin** » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:04:08

>I could use an excuse to fire up GPL again. I haven't raced or
>practiced for more than a month I think.
>--
> -asbjxrn

I'll give you two damn good reasons:
The new Eagle: http://www.gplea.org
Mt.Tremblant: http://www.theuspits.com

:)

Andre

by **Andre Warrin** » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:14:19

>Must have been Daryl that had you psyched rather than me. :) Surprised
>having Larry on your tail didn't bother you though.

Larry was two cars behind me. The guy behind me (can't remember who it
was) couldn't keep up and crashed a couple of laps later. Larry and
Sjoerd overtook me when I spinned.

LOL :)

Exactly. The weird thing for me was that I couldn't keep up with you
the first couple of laps. I felt like I was sliding all over the
place, very weird after I set the 2nd qualifying time. Then I spinned,
Sjoerd was in front of me, I knew I could get him, and I was back in
the zone. When I crashed on the 11th lap (cheap excuse: the night
before I put a squashball in my pedals and hardly had practice with
it, I overbraked in a corner because of that) I saw I had set the
fastest laptime so far.

Anyway, I hired a mental coach now, the next race at Monaco your ass
is mine :)

Andre

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:32:40

Exactly.

Too right, once one knows how to drive the car, anything further is at least
partly mental. Eldred's perception of where the limit and the edge of the
track are is underdeveloped. The only setting that can compensate for that
sits between his ears though.

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:53:29

<sigh> That's why you have to *believe*, get it? -You must believe you can
win any given race, regardless of the situation. End of story. Andre might
be in the ballpark with the fast guys, but I sure am not. Check the grids
for the reasonably well attented GP's if you don't believe me. However, I do
enter these races to win, silly as that may sound in the face of relative
laptimes.

Two more things:

1) the use of shift-r seems severely underpunished in the leagues you run
in, promoting erratic driving. If you can't beat them, join them. You might
hang on to it once in a while and get a result.

2) If there ain't no such thing as a fair war, there sure isn't anything
remotely like a fair race. You must be ready to ruthlessly capitalize on
other peoples mistakes. There's no need to let anyone bye for position just
because they happen to be faster than you, so depending on the tactical
situation you should block. Once you establish a reputation of being hard to
pass, you are hard to pass, whether you go out of your way to defend or not.

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 01 Nov 2001 02:01:28

>> Racing is for a big part a psycholigical game :)

>Too right, once one knows how to drive the car, anything further is at least
>partly mental. Eldred's perception of where the limit and the edge of the
>track are is underdeveloped. The only setting that can compensate for that
>sits between his ears though.

I know you meant that in a friendly way, but I don't like the way it came
out...<g> In real life, I don't have any problem knowing where the limit and
the edge of the track(road) are. In the sims, I'm not getting enough
information to have that same confidence.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 01 Nov 2001 02:01:28

><sigh> That's why you have to *believe*, get it? -You must believe you can
>win any given race, regardless of the situation. End of story. Andre might
>be in the ballpark with the fast guys, but I sure am not. Check the grids
>for the reasonably well attented GP's if you don't believe me. However, I do
>enter these races to win, silly as that may sound in the face of relative
>laptimes.

And check out MY results. I've been on the podium for 4 out of the 6
reasonably attended races. I've fairly proud of my finishing record<g>. As a
matter of fact, I just ran in my first MoG race this past saturday. 80 laps at
Anderstorp - I finished 6th.<sound of own horn blowing>
But, giving up 7 seconds per lap, there's no physical, mental, or emotional way
I can win without help. The other guys have to crash out, or disco. In the
Anderstorp race, I was basically the last surviving car. Everyone I 'beat'
either crashed or disco'd.

Like I said, I *prefer* full-length, full-damage races.

I've been a victim of WAY too many fast drivers punting me after they crashed
and shift-r'd. It's like they think they're ENTITLED to get back to the front
- nevermind the fact that it was THEIR f'kup that put them behind me in the
FIRST place... In other words, I just don't TRUST most of them not to take me
out in the process.
A lot of them expect the slower cars to part like the Red Sea. What's up with
THAT?

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

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