rec.autos.simulators

OT:Bogus F1 penalty(spoiler)

Ian

OT:Bogus F1 penalty(spoiler)

by Ian » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:05:31

Thanks Ben, I'd forgotten about that statement, but knew I'd heard that it
wasn't Ferrari suspected of it.

--

Ian P
<email invalid due to spammers>



> >> Ferrari and MS were using traction control last year between gear
shifts.
> >> That's why they had to allow it this year.

> >Well, this is the first time I've heard  this rumour, from what Max
Mosley
> >said it was a midfield team suspected of cheating. Besides which the time
> >taken to shift in F1 is so small I doubt traction could be broken, on an
> >upshift selecting the next gear, in effect reduces the power to the rear
> >wheels. So please post some actual proof that they were using TC.

> IIRC McLaren came right out and stated that Ferrari were _not_ one of the
> teams suspected of using TC.  I think they used the exhaust note to see
who
> they thought was and wasn't.

> Ben

Robert Ros

OT:Bogus F1 penalty(spoiler)

by Robert Ros » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:06:32

And the fact that you can clearly hear TC working, at least when fully
implemented, and the fact that Micheal did a lot of sliding...

It was clearly a racing accident really.  Its happened since without the
uproar and accusation.

Exactly.  Let's all pretend we don't have an opinion to be "professional".
To be fake more like.

True.  He's better.  Hands down.  He's been helped a few times in certain
situations, like maybe 3 or 4 max.  Big deal.

And how can people say this without actually knowing the guy.  He's never
come off arrogant in press conferences, interviews, etc.  I was doing a
*** gig for a golfing company.  There was a sports psychologist there
who used to work with drivers, Mansell and Schumacher among them.   The
Mansell stories were a laugh, but he did say that Micheal was actually quite
nice.  His management team however, are a different story.

Ferrari did take advantage of a loophole in the regs to speed up when the
upshift was engaged, but this was perfectly legal.  Sort of like
short-shifting for traction.  Other teams were perfectly entitled.

Besides, all the problems occuring at present, not to mention the sound of
the engines is solid proof that legalizing these systems because they
couldn't be policed is yet another FIA complete joke.

Exactly.  Continual dangerous moves eh?  Like a watershed of passes.  Most
come up fine.

Usually people will say Senna had "personality", which again, is so
difficult to judge and entirely irrelavant to a driver's ability and
accomplishments though of course in a personal sense very relevant.
However, I don't personally know Micheal actually.  Roebuk is big on this
sort of thing.

cheers,
rob

Dave Pawlikowsk

OT:Bogus F1 penalty(spoiler)

by Dave Pawlikowsk » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:15:52

I was watching the race that was on Speedvision at 7:30AM. Which one were
you watching?

 Was MS at a different track besides the Nurburgring today? Or do they now
run F1 in two legs, like World Superbike? Maybe you saw race two? Can you
tell me when that will be on?

And I have raced. Have you?? When I have started on the front row, I did not
try to run my GSXR-750 into the side of the guy next to me, pushing him
towards the wall. Not very sporting...

How come when Mika starts on the pole, he doesn't swing across the track
like MS does? Wasn't this a big deal last year, when DC was tired of MS
doing that?

And it also seems like Ralf was not too fond of what Michael did. Maybe he
should have talked to you first...

http://www.f1i.com/articles/ARTICLE_206663.html

********************************
Dave Pawlikowski

www.cushdrive.com
www.luftwaffe-experten.com
*********************************
" >

Ian

OT:Bogus F1 penalty(spoiler)

by Ian » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:30:24



> > > Here's why I don't like him.
> > > They found tracton control in the software on the car when he was at
> > Beneton
> > > but they siad we are not using it so the FIA said ok. (blatent
cheating)

> > There is absolutely no proof that they were using it, from memory they
> > proved they weren't using it.

> And you actually believe that. "We have an aid on our car but we were not
> using it to go faster, honest"

It was just after a rule change, it was rumoured to be too difficult to
remove the parts of the software relating to TC without a complete rewrite
so they disabled it.

He did, thats one deliberate foul, which he admitted. I'm willing to let
that slide, you're obviously not.

They proved the car to be within the letter of the rules.

When MS came back from his broken leg he tried to help Irvine win the
championship, but Irvine was unable to put up a good enough performance. If
Irvine had got the WC, it would be more of MH losing it than EI winning it
anyway. Most times his team mates have had to pull over to let him past he
would have passed them anyway, other times he was out of position due to
external influences. Ferrari obviously pay him a lot of money to win the WC
and believe that by giving him track position they have the best position to
win the WC. Whether thats right or wrong, it is at the end of the day the
teams decision.

To be honest, some people see him as arrogant, I don't. I don't know him off
the track, and from what I've seen of him in interviews etc. he doesn't
appear arrogant.

Well from what I've heard HHF and Corrina had broke up a while before she
dated MS, so that's not exactly stealing her is it ? ;) Anyway, I don't see
what that's got to do with our opinion of him as a driver.

- Show quoted text -

Simon Brow

OT:Bogus F1 penalty(spoiler)

by Simon Brow » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:55:00

Don't forget he was found *guilty* by the FIA of deliberately trying to take
out Jaques Villeneuve in an attempt to win the world title.  Luckily for the
credibility and honour of F1 he failed.  He was stripped of his second place
in the championship though as a punishment.


Todd Sorense

OT:Bogus F1 penalty(spoiler)

by Todd Sorense » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:17:23

Michael did close to the same. Not quite. The penalty was B.S.

Todd


> That'll teach him to get too close to his brother, I always though you
were
> allowed to get 2 wheels over the line when exiting the pit. Did Michael do
> the same?

> --

> Steve Levett



> >   Without giving awayt he results, for those who have taped this
morning's
> > F1 race.
> >   The completely unwarranted penalty on Ralf was nitpicking at it's
worst.
> > Obviously the Powers of F1 felt the status quo was being upset.  If the
> > leader's name hadn't been Schumacher, then you can bet the penalty
> wouldn't
> > have happened.
> >   What?  Ralf's last name is what?
> > uh...nevermind.....
> > dave :) henrie

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Todd Sorense

OT:Bogus F1 penalty(spoiler)

by Todd Sorense » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:19:39

Most of these points describe about any F1 driver. Do you hate them all?


> Here's why I don't like him.
> They found tracton control in the software on the car when he was at
Beneton
> but they siad we are not using it so the FIA said ok. (blatent cheating)
> He wrecked Damon Hill on purpose to get the Championship.
> He contunually gets better treatment from F1. Bernie even said on screen
he
> wanted MS to win the title.
> He will not allow his teammates to race against him equally.
> He's very arrogant.
> Ferrari and MS were using traction control last year between gear shifts.
> That's why they had to allow it this year.
> He continually pulles dangerous moves time after time on other drivers.

> btw, he was stuck in 5th gear in that race and I admit he is a very fast
> driver but to me he will never be one of the greats of F1.

> --

> Steve Levett
> Flyer in N4
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -------------------
> European Racing League - http://www.europeanracingleague.com
> 502 Racing co-founder - http://www.502racing.com
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -------------------


> > Hi all.

> > *inserts 2 cents*...

> > Being a MS fan, i still feel robbed of a good race by the officials
> > who penalised ralf.  The 10-second stop and go is *such* a terrible
> > penalty that I wonder if the punishment fits the crime.  It's a pity
> > that they can't just penalise him 20 seconds or have a drive-thru
> > instead.

> > F1 fans seem to be divided quite firmly in the love / hate camps when
> > it comes to MS.  I guess i started supporting him because of my
> > dislike of Senna.  Funny thing is that Michael seems to be displaying
> > some of the traits of Senna that I didn't like then.  I was a Prost
> > fan in those days and always thought that Senna was too aggressive
> > (*insert anti MS stuff*), etc.

> > I guess the reason I still support him is how he has managed to
> > perform well, even on the days when he had a problem or slow(er) car.
> > I remember in Spain(i think) in the Benetton a few years ago, he got
> > stuck in 5th or 6th gear(can't remember).  He lost the lead and
> > dropped back, but still managed to adjust his driving technique to
> > accomodate this major disability and still scored points.  Someone
> > with a better memory will have all the details.  From that day I
> > realised that I will be a fan for a long time.  The aggressive moves
> > against Damon Hill & Jacques Villeneuve to try and force the
> > championships in his favor were probably the most terrible things he's
> > done in my view.  I still find myself supporting him though.  Funny
> > thing for me to admit is that I thought that the next hot driver and
> > possibly the person to knock him off his perch would be Montoya.  I
> > might still be right on that one though.

> > Without meaning to get into a squabble over something so small, but I
> > had to smile when I read this next bit...
> > >fans) by motorsports fans and even some other drivers, even some
Germans
> I
> > >know can't stand him.
> > That's like saying, even some Americans can't stand Little Al or
> > Michael Andretti or whoever.  I'm sure there are some Canadians who
> > can't stand Paul Tracy or Jacques Villeneuve.  I'm South African and
> > there are *many* South African sports people that I can't stand.
> > 1 It's got nothing to do with the sportsperson, it's my preference.
> > 2 People living in the same country don't all like the same teams /
> > athletes / popstars or whatever.

> > Actually.  Now that I've read that last bit again, let me apologise in
> > advance to anyone who thinks i'm looking for an argument.  Maybe I am
> > not taking the comment in its proper context.

> > Its 9:45PM and I'm waiting for the CART race to start on ESPN.

> > Regards all,

> > Regards all,
> > istoff

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Steve Levet

OT:Bogus F1 penalty(spoiler)

by Steve Levet » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:38:53

Most driver might have 1 or 2 bad points but MS has them all, He's the only
driver I hate in F1, CART, NASCAR or TOCA.

--

Steve Levett


> Most of these points describe about any F1 driver. Do you hate them all?



> > Here's why I don't like him.
> > They found tracton control in the software on the car when he was at
> Beneton
> > but they siad we are not using it so the FIA said ok. (blatent cheating)
> > He wrecked Damon Hill on purpose to get the Championship.
> > He contunually gets better treatment from F1. Bernie even said on screen
> he
> > wanted MS to win the title.
> > He will not allow his teammates to race against him equally.
> > He's very arrogant.
> > Ferrari and MS were using traction control last year between gear
shifts.
> > That's why they had to allow it this year.
> > He continually pulles dangerous moves time after time on other drivers.

> > btw, he was stuck in 5th gear in that race and I admit he is a very fast
> > driver but to me he will never be one of the greats of F1.

> > --

> > Steve Levett
> > Flyer in N4

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -------------------
> > European Racing League - http://www.europeanracingleague.com
> > 502 Racing co-founder - http://www.502racing.com

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -------------------


> > > Hi all.

> > > *inserts 2 cents*...

> > > Being a MS fan, i still feel robbed of a good race by the officials
> > > who penalised ralf.  The 10-second stop and go is *such* a terrible
> > > penalty that I wonder if the punishment fits the crime.  It's a pity
> > > that they can't just penalise him 20 seconds or have a drive-thru
> > > instead.

> > > F1 fans seem to be divided quite firmly in the love / hate camps when
> > > it comes to MS.  I guess i started supporting him because of my
> > > dislike of Senna.  Funny thing is that Michael seems to be displaying
> > > some of the traits of Senna that I didn't like then.  I was a Prost
> > > fan in those days and always thought that Senna was too aggressive
> > > (*insert anti MS stuff*), etc.

> > > I guess the reason I still support him is how he has managed to
> > > perform well, even on the days when he had a problem or slow(er) car.
> > > I remember in Spain(i think) in the Benetton a few years ago, he got
> > > stuck in 5th or 6th gear(can't remember).  He lost the lead and
> > > dropped back, but still managed to adjust his driving technique to
> > > accomodate this major disability and still scored points.  Someone
> > > with a better memory will have all the details.  From that day I
> > > realised that I will be a fan for a long time.  The aggressive moves
> > > against Damon Hill & Jacques Villeneuve to try and force the
> > > championships in his favor were probably the most terrible things he's
> > > done in my view.  I still find myself supporting him though.  Funny
> > > thing for me to admit is that I thought that the next hot driver and
> > > possibly the person to knock him off his perch would be Montoya.  I
> > > might still be right on that one though.

> > > Without meaning to get into a squabble over something so small, but I
> > > had to smile when I read this next bit...
> > > >fans) by motorsports fans and even some other drivers, even some
> Germans
> > I
> > > >know can't stand him.
> > > That's like saying, even some Americans can't stand Little Al or
> > > Michael Andretti or whoever.  I'm sure there are some Canadians who
> > > can't stand Paul Tracy or Jacques Villeneuve.  I'm South African and
> > > there are *many* South African sports people that I can't stand.
> > > 1 It's got nothing to do with the sportsperson, it's my preference.
> > > 2 People living in the same country don't all like the same teams /
> > > athletes / popstars or whatever.

> > > Actually.  Now that I've read that last bit again, let me apologise in
> > > advance to anyone who thinks i'm looking for an argument.  Maybe I am
> > > not taking the comment in its proper context.

> > > Its 9:45PM and I'm waiting for the CART race to start on ESPN.

> > > Regards all,

> > > Regards all,
> > > istoff

> > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Sean Higgin

OT:Bogus F1 penalty(spoiler)

by Sean Higgin » Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:25:57

If you watch the replay you will clearly see that MS was ON the line, Ralf
was OVER the line clearly.

--

Sean Higgins

Redline Racing League
www.rrlnrs.com

Redline BGN Division
http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/RRL/

> Michael did close to the same. Not quite. The penalty was B.S.

> Todd



> > That'll teach him to get too close to his brother, I always though you
> were
> > allowed to get 2 wheels over the line when exiting the pit. Did Michael
do
> > the same?

> > --

> > Steve Levett



> > >   Without giving awayt he results, for those who have taped this
> morning's
> > > F1 race.
> > >   The completely unwarranted penalty on Ralf was nitpicking at it's
> worst.
> > > Obviously the Powers of F1 felt the status quo was being upset.  If
the
> > > leader's name hadn't been Schumacher, then you can bet the penalty
> > wouldn't
> > > have happened.
> > >   What?  Ralf's last name is what?
> > > uh...nevermind.....
> > > dave :) henrie

> > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


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