rec.autos.simulators

Thanks for letting me vent.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!

VERY well-said.

Now, will the REAL race fans please raise their hands?  

[NOTE:  Put your hand back down if you're either an IRL or a CART
basher.]

;-)

-- JB

Yes -- unequivocably, yes.  The 6-foot stand-up Bobby Rahal that
resided in my living room in 1993 - 95 was testimony to that.  When
the IRL and CART split initially occurred, I was outraged, and I
immediately took CART's side.  After researching the issue and
reviewing all the info I could find, I decided that based on what the
IRL brought to the table, that would probably be a worthwhile series,
given enough time.  Since there was no middle ground on the issue, the
IRL won my sole support, mainly because I agreed with the need for a
series like the IRL.  Also, I came to the realization that the ovals
were my favorit part of the Indycar series, and although I avidly
followed the CART Indycar series, I would occasionally miss races like
Vancouver or Portland and find myself not really missing the race at
all, if you know what I mean.  I'd never miss races like Michigan or
Milwaukee, though, which spoke to me even further on the issue.

From a sim standpoint (imagine that -- mentioning racing sim in the
rec.autos.simulators newsgroup!), I enjoy road racing quite a bit more
than ovals, but from a spectator's standpoint, nothing beats watching
a good oval race.  NASCAR bores me, though, FWIW -- there's something
about the skill, speed, and finesse required to race an open-wheeler
on an oval that just really makes it all worth watching.  I have
started following F1, though, and I've always enjoyed Elkhart Lake,
Mid-Ohio, and Cleveland, so don't think that I'm trying to bash road
and street racing, because I'm not.

In the pre-1995 era, I was thoroughly unimpressed with Buddy Lazier,
and his presence in the IRL didn't e*** me all that much.  Now,
though, thanks to the IRL, I've learned that Buddy Lazier is not only
one of the most personable drivers I've ever met in any series, he's
also an oval ace who is ALWAYS worth watching.  And Lazier isn't my
favorite IRL driver, for that matter.  Guys like Jeff Ward have really
had a chance to shine in the IRL (if you discount the season he had
last year with Foyt, that is), and when you toss in the young
up-and-comers like Sam Hornish and Sarah Fisher, the IRL makes for a
very appealing package these days.  

Zanardi's return to CART has also served to spark my enthusiasm there
-- over the past few of years, Zanardi and Montoya have been the two
main reasons I've watched any CART races at all, but those guys
definitely made it worth watching.  Overall, though, since CART
doesn't race in Indy anymore, I just don't feel that hometown
"connection" these days.  I don't know how you guys manage who live in
cities where they DON'T have any major races at all. <G>

When it comes down to "the stars and the cars," I think the IRL and
CART both have each commodity in spades -- but the IRL vs CART turmoil
has only served to denigrate what both series has to offer, and I find
that to be the REALLY sad part of all this.

So, does this answer your question?

;-)

-- JB

I hope they stop doing that.  I find it to be really annoying and
distracting.

Nope. Is that important? Anyway, I didn't know about the yellow line,
so thanks for that info.

--

Yes. But I didn't want to mention that. I think the XFL is getting
better attendance :-)

--

A homourous summary of his season in CART can be found at:
http://www.deepthrottle.com/scorecard.shtml

--
-am

Wow that was some episle! You cannot seriously believe that comments
I make here could hurt the no-shows at the races or on ABC. That is quite
funny.

Screw ymenard. Who give a shit about him anyway?

--

   And if I don't like *every single one*, I'm not a "real race fan"?
So maybe I should go quietly sob in the corner 'cause JB and Tomlani
have voted me out of the "real race fans" club?  :)

   The point being, there's a difference between being tolerant and
lacking any sort of discrimination (and for the politically correct, a
reminder that the "D-word" *isn't* a curse word).

<paragraph on the IRL deleted; your welcome>

   PS - rereading my posts (both of them), I *thought* I was
discussing drivers and the series in a fairly objective manner.  I'm
sorry if that is considering bashing nowadays.

   PPS - John, your long post to John Chapman was interesting, but may
put you in danger of being thrown out of the "race racing fan" club.
:)

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

Oh, I'm sure you qualify as a "real race fan" -- I wasn't implying
that you had to LIKE every form of motorsports, but rather that there
should be some inherent level of respect for motorsports in general if
you claim to be a "real race fan."  Heck, during the heat of the
football season, I find myself scanning Speedvision just for a measly
tractor pull or something, mainly because ANY motorsport is better
than football, as far as I'm concerned.  ;-)

I think it's perfectly all right to have discriminatory tastes when it
comes to racing -- NASCAR doesn't float my boat, but I have the utmost
respect for NASCAR drivers because of what they do for a living, and I
try to extend that respect to NASCAR fans as well.  I will
occasionally engage in some good-natured ribbing with regards to
NASCAR, but general I try to show some measure of respect even when
among my closest friends.  Given the tension and hostilities between
the IRL and CART camps, and the way that open-wheel racing is
suffering in this country at the moment, I think we'd all be better
off if all IRL and CART fans would adopt this same type of attitude
with regards to each other's series of choice.

You were -- I was referring more to the Greg Cisko's of the world <G>.

Au contraire -- I believe my comments there showed a fair degree of
respect for CART and its drivers (and fans), despite the fact that I
don't really enjoy many of the CART street races.  My decision to
follow the IRL basically made me an outcast -- as I said, "Since there
was no middle ground on the issue, the IRL won my sole support."
Basically, many, many, MANY CART fans would not allow you to take a
middle ground, and since I found myself somewhat e***d about the
arrival of the IRL, that immediately "branded" me as an IRL fan (and
hence, and anti-CART fan).  

All the mindless rhetoric about CART's "Cars and Stars," the dire
predictions about the demise of the Indy 500 and the IRL, and the
tremdous embarrassment that was called the U.S. 500 only served to
widen the gulf between people like me who were e***d about the IRL
and people who continually make posts with titles like "IRL Blows!"  

Rather than put up with the endless comparisons between the IRL and
CART -- and heaven forbid I should lapse into that same pattern myself
-- I simply decided that although I respected CART's drivers and
teams, the politics, passions, and animosity amongst the fans were
just too hot to handle, so my interest in CART essentially waned.  I
would still catch the occasional CART race -- just as I also catch the
occasional NASCAR race, for that matter -- but I found that any
passion I had once had for CART was buried beneath a ton of resentment
that was generated by CART's own so-called fans.  Talk about a public
service announcement, eh?

Montoya's win at Indy, Penske's return to Indy this year and his
presence at Phoenix, and my work with the folks on the CART2K
conversion for F1CS2K has helped rekindle that enthusiasm somewhat,
but -- what do you know -- along comes someone with pop-off valve
comments like Cisko's "IRL Blows!" post, and suddenly I find myself
rapidly loosing interest in CART again.

This isn't necessarily aimed at you, Jeff, but at all those IRL and
CART fans who do nothing more than fan the flames of resentment
between the IRL and CART camps:

PYHO.

'Nuff said.

-- JB

;-)

BTW, check your hotmail account, Greg -- it's VERY important!

-- JB

CART on oval tracks is also less fun to watch then when they race on a road
course, for me.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I just did. Thanks :-)

Wow.

--