rec.autos.simulators

What a bunch of bush league drivers! No offense to Nascar :-)

I turned the channel shortly after that one. It was just disgusting.

--

That said, during the drivers meeting, the drivers were instructed to move
below the yellow line in turn three when making a pit stop... Gil Deferan
obviously choose not to follow those instructions and was still in the
middle of the track, well above the yellow (inside track marker) line while
coming through turn FOUR!

Granted, Shreoder (a road racing veteran, who competed at the 24 hours of
Daytona and Grand-Am race at Homestead earlier this year) should have moved
high on the track, and stayed there, rather than first going high, then
choosing to go low, then changing his mind and trying to go back high on the
track to avoid a MUCH slower Deferan who was still in the racing groove.

Perhaps he he wouldn't have changed his mind he would have avoided Gil...
Guess we'll never know, but I do know that Shroeder was angry at the CART
champion afterwards, stating that he didn't understand why Gil was go SO
slowly while still in the racing groove...

On TV It sure looked like a bonehead move by Shroeder, but in all actuality,
it was probably "just one of them racing deals".

Jay J

PS: Greg are you from Canada?

...

Okay it still sucks. KILL TONY GEORGE!!!!!

:all your base are belong to us:

Come on, Greg -- De Ferran was as much at fault as Schroeder in this
incident.  I hated to see a Penske driver taken out by an IRL driver,
but it was NOT anything intentional (or does anybody want to drag out
any conpiracy theories about Castroneves' motor?  You probably missed
this one, though, since you changed the channel in disgust shortly
after the De Ferran incident).  

Here was what Schroeder and De Ferran had to say about the incident:

===============

"I'd been following de Ferran for a few laps," Schroeder said. "He
went to the inside and I thought he was just blocking or something. We
got into three together, and I backed out of it and got in behind him.
I was just trying to bide my time and stay out of trouble.

"Going under the bridge all of a sudden he got on the binders and was
headed into the pits. It didn't look to me like he was trying to get
into the pits before that. I ran into the back of him. I was drafting
him, and when he did that I had nowhere to go but straight into the
back of him. I'm sore; my head, neck and shoulders hurt, but I passed
medical. It was a harder hit than Kentucky last year.

"I was picking off one car at a time, trying to stay out of trouble
and pick my way to the front, but unfortunately things like this
happen sometimes."

De Ferran saw the incident the same way. "I was going into the pits,
but Jeret probably didn't realize that I was coming in," he said. "I
thought I was slowing down enough. It was a misunderstanding."

===============

When I first saw the replay on TV, I thought it looked like Schroeder
actually ACCELERATED into De Ferran, but after watching it a few times
from the various angles, it became obvious that De Ferran got on the
binders WAY above the yellow line, and Schroeder was basically
following along behind in the draft, waiting for an opportunity to
pass; when De Ferran slowed so suddenly, Schroeder had nowhere to go.

Jeret Schroeder hasn't had a chance to shine in the IRL yet, but he's
an accomplished driver -- he basically comes from a sports car
background, having competed in ALMS, USRRC, Toyota Atlantic, and U.S.
Formula Ford 2000 series, with a career stretching back to 1990.
Based on his background and resume, he's EXACTLY the kind of young
American driver who should be driving for a CART team, but it appears
that if it weren't for the IRL, he wouldn't be racing in open-wheelers
at this point in his career.  Care to remind me just how many
U.S.-born drivers are racing in CART right now?  

FWIW, I've had the opportunity to race karts with Schroeder here at
Indy at Stefan Johansson's place, and I've got nothing but respect for
him.  He's a professional, and there's no way he would have taken out
De Ferran on purpose.  Obviously, De Ferran must feel the same, based
on his statement that the incident "was a misunderstanding."

Frankly, I really hated to see Penske meet with such bad luck overall
-- I was truly hoping that they would add to the overall drama.  All
in all, though, Phoenix turned out to be a good race with PLENTY of
drama towards the end -- any racing fan who wasn't able to see that is
simply blinded by the love of CART and disdain for the IRL, and,
hence, they shouldn't try to pass themselves off as true "race fans."
If you don't like the IRL, that's fine, but judging the racing action
based on that inherent dislike is, well, frankly, it's biased, plain
and simple, and that pretty much discounts your ability to serve as a
jude in this instance.  

I'm not a big CART fan, personally -- I feel no connection to any of
the drivers and teams, but whenever I've tuned in to watch a CART
race, I've always been able to admit that there was some good racing
action going on (and usually some bad, as well), even at the non-oval
events.  Furthermore, I really do try to keep any comments I might
make about CART positive -- at this point in time, negativity about
either the IRL or CART is just another nail in the coffin for open
wheel racing in this country.  The IRL/CART split is over five years
old now -- it's time for EVERYBODY to get over it and get on with
life, or seek professional help if you're unable to do otherwise.
This is a sport -- "entertainment," to be exact -- and if you think
that having two similar racing series that results in more racing
overall is a bad thing, then you really must not like racing all that
much.

But, to get us back on-topic (which was, I believe, "IRL Blows!"), I
did find it interesting that former CART and current IRL driver
Shigeaki Hattori fared better than BOTH of Penske's drivers in
yesterday's race -- including De Ferran, the reigning CART champion.
Hattori didn't fare so well in CART last season, so Walker shifted him
over to an IRL ride, which led to much derision from the CART ranks,
if I recall correctly.  To Hattori's credit, keeping out of trouble on
the track is a critical part of the racing experience -- "in order to
finish first, you must first finish," as they say, and although
Hattori didn't finish first, he DID finish the race, even if he was a
few laps down.  Basically, Hattori stayed out of trouble, and
successfully managed to enter the pits at each pit stop in a safe
enough manner that he did NOT get rear-ended, which is more than you
can say for CART's finest, Gil De Ferran.  Basically, if you can't
drop down low enough to enter the pits without leaving the guy behind
you oblivious of your intentions, then you've pretty much got to
accept that your chances of finishing the race -- let alone winning --
are pretty slim.  So yeah, maybe the IRL does blow, but when CART's
finest come calling and fare so poorly, what does that say about CART?

As they say, "People in glass houses . . ."

BTW, congratulations on scuttling any kind sentiments or vestigial
interest I might have been developing for CART.  I'm sure Penske and
the other owners appreicate your efforts to draw in new fans for the
series.  

</SARCASM>

-- JB

P.S.  One last thing to remember:  This is the REC.AUTOS.SIMULATORS
newsgroup, not REC.AUTOS.SPORT.INDY, which I typically avoid like the
plague thanks to this type of inane IRL and CART bashing.  Ymenard
will no doubt be reminding us both to review the newsgroup's charter
shortly.

;-)

ABC is getting way carried-away with that super-imposed crap.  I feel
insulted for some strange reason everytime I see one of those ads.  *shrug*

--
                                   See ya in the pits,
                                           Dean

I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how
long it's been since I've forgotten anything.

I think Unser Jrs nascar stint was in 1993.  He got hit from behind by
Earnhardt.

I for one think it's a great use of technology! They used it during
qualifying too, when each driver took their first lap, they showed that
drivers picture, car number and name...

If you ask me, it's a great way for uninformed fans to put faces with names
they hear during the broadcast.

JJ

   It seemed to me that the broadcast (ABC's race 'cast) was devoid of
technology, if anything.  Seemed like little scoring data (times, laps
down, etc.), not many in-car shots, etc.  Also, as goofy as it may
seem, Fox's GPS-based car-tracker (which always looks to me like alien
spacecraft zapping the cars from high above :) would be a real boon to
IRL (or CART) with the relatively tinier and thus harder to recognize
cars.  Or maybe I just need to get a big screen TV...  ;)

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

   Thanks for posting that (saved me the trouble of chasing it down).

   I'm sorry, but most CART teams aren't in the position to "take a
shot" at just any U.S. racer, even with a colorful helmet.  And
looking at Jaret's resume (http://www.indyracingleague.com/drivers),
he doesn't really look like CART material to me (the only bright spot
being the '95 F2000 championship in eight years of pro racing).  If
you look at any of the newer drivers in CART, they bring something to
their team, either a proven high skill level (for the better teams) or
sponsorship (for the lesser teams).  Jaret doesn't seem to offer
either, unfortunately.

   I wish their were more U.S. racers in CART, but Jaret isn't at the
top of my list.  I think you'd make a much better case with Buddy
Lazier, but that one's been shot down before, too.  There are a *ton*
of "accomplished drivers", but less than 30 CART seats.

PS - there are plenty of American racers in CART, about 18 at last
count.  Yeah, you corrected yourself later in the paragraph, but I
couldn't resist.  :)

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

18 American racers in CART????!!!!???? WHO?
Well... Let's see there is:

Michael Andretti
Jimmy Vasser
and then there's...

Uh. Um.. Well... Hmmm... Golly Gee, That's all I can think of!

Well... Let's see, which teams are the top teams in CART, maybe we can
figure out who has a driver from the USA running for them this year...

Penske.. Hmmm Nope no American's there, unless you count SOUTH Americans ;-)
Ganassi ? Nope none there either...
Rahal? Nada...
Team Green? Yep.. 1 Mikey, ok so far so good...
Patrick? Yep.. 1 on that team too, Jimmy V., ok that's two...
Mo Nun? Nope....
Newman Haas? Hmmm Nope none there either...
Players Forsythe? Nope.. Canadian's are NORTH Americans though, does that
count?
PacWest? Nope...
Walker Racing? Nada...
Bettenhausen? No none there either....
Fernandez racing? Sorry none there either...

Jeeze I guess that's about it huh?

Sorry for the sarcasm, but for a series based in the USA, with the vast
majority of it's races held in the USA, with the majority of it's TV
programming aimed at USA audiences, they've got a real problem don't ya
think?

Now... Before you bash me... Let it be known that I enjoy CART racing, in
fact the Wife and I will be attending a CART event next month, and even
though Alex Z, Adrian Fernandez, Paul Tracy and Kenny Brack are not from the
USA they are my favorite drivers in that series!

Jay J

Isn't the "good ole US of A" all about being the best?  And if it
means bringing guys in from the Caribbean (such as baseball), then
bring them in.

There are very few American drivers who are good enough to run CART
It's the truth.  So the team owners have gone looking elsewhere.

I'd rather watch Alex Zanardi rather than Jeret Schroeder.  That's fer
sure.

BTW perhaps the original poster is in reference to America being North
America + South America.  Afterall the USA is just the "United States"
OF AMERICA.  Of course that would have been bad taste.

This is a serious question, and not sarcastic, I am just curious.

Were you an Indycar fan before 1996?