rec.autos.simulators

I know we have hashed out setups for this track awhile back.  But now
that I have a 1997 carset out of the way.  I've gone back to Michigan
to see the livery on parade.  Since the patch, the boys at Michigan seem
to fly even faster.  I've got a pretty good and very stable race setup,
that will let me keep up with the leaders after the tires have come up
to temp and the fuel load has lightened.  However, by then they have
left me in the dust and without any drafting partners.  Am I being a
wimp by lowering the RELS line in the track.txt file to 98?  This way I
am still a little slow with cold tires, but once I've got some heat in
the ***, I can keep up & match the really fast guys and can usually
gain a few tenths on them for the last 10-12 laps.

The real speeds at MIS over the last couple of years have all been under
the Record of 234+ (31.040 seconds) set by Mario.  Well in the sim the
fast guys are all running close to 30 seconds and of course get close to
240mph if the RELS is at 100.  I know there are a few hotshots that can
match and beat this, but my question is how about the rest of us regular
racers?   It just seems odd that I can qualify in the top 6 with no
effort, but can't keep in the top 12 during a race.

How do the rest of you feel about MIS after the patch?

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

: Am I being a wimp by lowering the RELS line in the track.txt file to 98?
: ....240mph if the RELS is at 100.  I know there are a few hotshots that
: can match and beat this, but my question is how about the rest of us

Well, there are more numbers than RELS that control speed of AI.  As you
know, the DRIVERS2.TXT file is where most of these are.  However, BLAP and
RELS work with them and are just as important, as well as the AI Strength
in the setup menu.

AI speed is a relative thing.  All of these numbers can make or break the
AI experience.

For me personally, I give them LOTS of traction.  Then I reduce their HP
and increase their drag.  Give the aggressiveness a boost and you are
ready for some real racing.  Note: Giving them more traction increases
their straight speeds, hence, the reduction in HP.  Besides, I LOVE that
downforce!!  I'm not always the top speed turner, but I'll take a lap time
over speed any day.

With more traction, they are better in the corners and are not as easy to
out-brake.  Still possible, but not from 200 yards back like in the stock
AI.

I miss the ICR1 AI since they often would try and out-brake you.  Granted,
they always ran up your gearbox when doing it, but that's probably why
they changed that.

AI adjustment is different for everybody.  I like them quicker in corners,
but others might want them faster down the straight.  Each track is
different, but it is possible to get one DRIVERS2.TXT file to work at most
all tracks.  That is where the RELS and BLAP come into play.

The trick is to get them to turn laps AT or CLOSE to the speed that YOU
are turning.

: : Am I being a wimp by lowering the RELS line in the track.txt file to 98?
: : ....240mph if the RELS is at 100.  I know there are a few hotshots that
: : can match and beat this, but my question is how about the rest of us

: Well, there are more numbers than RELS that control speed of AI.  As you
: know, the DRIVERS2.TXT file is where most of these are.  However, BLAP and
: RELS work with them and are just as important, as well as the AI Strength
: in the setup menu.
<snip>
: For me personally, I give them LOTS of traction.  Then I reduce their HP
: and increase their drag.  Give the aggressiveness a boost and you are
: ready for some real racing.  Note: Giving them more traction increases
: their straight speeds, hence, the reduction in HP.  Besides, I LOVE that
: downforce!!  I'm not always the top speed turner, but I'll take a lap time
: over speed any day.

: With more traction, they are better in the corners and are not as easy to
: out-brake.  Still possible, but not from 200 yards back like in the stock
: AI.

I was always under the impression that power=straight speed and
traction=cornering speed.  (or was the above just a slip of the brain
during typing?)  I agree though that giving the AI better traction
improves their driving more than power.  This is especially true on road
courses, but shows up in ovals also.  Even the superspeedways.  It seems
that with better traction they will attack the turns and corners much
harder.  This is were the really good "real world" drivers outshine the
rest.  I find that by giving the AI better traction, it is "safer" to
battle them in the turns at the ovals.  When the have better traction
they seem to hold their lines better.  Had some great side by side
racing at MIS last night.  Swapping places corner after corner.  Playing
cat 'n mouse with the backmarkers.

Also I thought drag only came into play during qualifying.  However, I
also remember a post where someone thought that a higher drag slowed
them down during qualifying but also sped them up during the race. ?????
I have seen various opinions on the affects of drag on the AI
performance.  It's been along time since I did any testing, but I seem
to remember not much affect caused by drag during races, but only during
qualifying.
<snip>
: AI adjustment is different for everybody.  I like them quicker in corners,
: but others might want them faster down the straight.  Each track is
: different, but it is possible to get one DRIVERS2.TXT file to work at most
: all tracks.  That is where the RELS and BLAP come into play.

: The trick is to get them to turn laps AT or CLOSE to the speed that YOU
: are turning.

I agree, but it seems that Michigan is a ***e to get them evened out
on.  Maybe it's just me, but there is no way I can keep up with them on
cold tires.  It takes me about 2-1/2 laps to get enough heat built up in
the tires to keep up with them.  By then I have lost a lot of ground.
But, at least if I run full length races at MIS I have a chance to catch
back up with them.  Just hate it though when there is a yellow with only
10-20 laps left.  

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 Happy motoring!

--
__________________________________________________________________
 Mikko "MickKeys" Paavola            Studying Information Engineering
 Rakentajantie 5 D 202               in The University of Oulu
 90570  OULU,  FINLAND

: I was always under the impression that power=straight speed and
: traction=cornering speed.  (or was the above just a slip of the brain
: during typing?)

No typo.  More traction in the corners makes them come onto the straight
carrying more speed.  They then carry this speed improvement down the
entire straight.  I just give them a little less HP so they don't just
smoke by me.

        <snip>

I discovered the same thing too. Before the patch, my best time was around
240mph for qualifying and during the race I'd usually be able to keep up
with the CCs until I lose traction because of the bugs and all
that. However, after the patch, I could just about get the same time in
qualifying but there was absolutely no way that I could keep up with the
CCs during the race. In the end, I copied the MIS directory from the
original CDROM to get the unpatched track back. BTW, this was a suggestion
from someone in this ng, and everything has been peachy again thus far. I
haven't raced on it much since I'm doing the championship season now.

On a different note, I really loved your PPG96 carset but I must say that
the CCs (i.e. your drivers2.txt) are really fast. For example, I was racing
at Long Beach. I qualified 3rd. with Michael Andretti on pole and Greg
Moore 2nd. I got the jump on them at the green (which is fairly easy to do
even without the "slowing down and pedal on the metal as the safety car goes
in" cheat) but the Andretti CC must have been inspired or something that
day because he was right on my tail for some 30 laps or so and I was doing
sub-53s on most of them! I only managed to pull away when going through the
backmarkers. And then, on my final pit stop, I missed my pits (a regular
occurence for me) and I had to reverse a little bit and lost time. This
wasn't during a yellow. Alex Zanardi was some 24 secs behind me before the
pit stop but because of the slip-up he managed to get in front of me. After
the end of my out lap I was some 5.5 secs behind him- I could just about
see him go into turn 1 from the straight. There was some 20 laps to go and
I was trying like a mad cow to catch the *** but traffic was a ***. I
caught up and passed him on lap 98 (I think) but on lap 102 I made a
mistake on the hairpin before the pit entrance and did a piroutte. Alex
passed me and I lost some 3 secs recovering myself (there wasn't a yellow,
why was that?). Anyway, in the end I lost the race and it really
sucked. But it sucked good though. So what's my point, I hear you ask?
Well, it could be that your own drivers2.txt is a bit too strong for
Michigan, maybe?

My own 2p.

Yusseri
--

Centre for Vision, Speech and Signal Processing
School of Electronic Engineering,
  Information Technology and Mathematics
University of Surrey
Guildford GU2 5XH

: Well, it could be that your own drivers2.txt is a bit too strong for
: Michigan, maybe?

Depends on who is the human driver.  I blew them off quite readily.  Even
started dead last only to come through the field in 5 mins.

That's why I am glad that Papy let's us adjust AI very easily.  Otherwise,
I would probably be driving GP2 more often.  ;)

: On a different note, I really loved your PPG96 carset but I must say that
: the CCs (i.e. your drivers2.txt) are really fast. For example, I was racing
: at Long Beach. I qualified 3rd. with Michael Andretti on pole and Greg
: Moore 2nd. I got the jump on them at the green (which is fairly easy to do
: even without the "slowing down and pedal on the metal as the safety car goes
: in" cheat) but the Andretti CC must have been inspired or something that
: day because he was right on my tail for some 30 laps or so and I was doing
: sub-53s on most of them! I only managed to pull away when going through the
: backmarkers. And then, on my final pit stop, I missed my pits (a regular
: occurence for me) and I had to reverse a little bit and lost time. This
: wasn't during a yellow. Alex Zanardi was some 24 secs behind me before the
: pit stop but because of the slip-up he managed to get in front of me. After
: the end of my out lap I was some 5.5 secs behind him- I could just about
: see him go into turn 1 from the straight. There was some 20 laps to go and
: I was trying like a mad cow to catch the *** but traffic was a ***. I
: caught up and passed him on lap 98 (I think) but on lap 102 I made a
: mistake on the hairpin before the pit entrance and did a piroutte. Alex
: passed me and I lost some 3 secs recovering myself (there wasn't a yellow,
: why was that?). Anyway, in the end I lost the race and it really
: sucked. But it sucked good though. So what's my point, I hear you ask?
: Well, it could be that your own drivers2.txt is a bit too strong for
: Michigan, maybe?

I think you are right.  The combination of the patch & the "goosed up"
drivers2.txt file have alot to do with the problems.  I appreciate your
feedback.  The more I receive, hopefully the better I can "tailor" the
drivers2.txt files in the future.  I think one of the problems I have
created is that I really like to give the CC (or AI) better numbers for
traction.  It seems that with the default numbers, they tend to suck
when it comes to the turns and cornering.  But, as someone else pointed
out in another thread, this can cause their straight speed to go up
because of the speed they can carry through the turns.  I think I will
go back and take a look at this in my "calculations" for the
drivers2.txt file.

On another note.  I think that instead of re-installing the original
Michigan track, it's better to edit the RELS (and the BLAP if necessary)
in the track file.  Same goes for other tracks that seem to be a little
out of "whack".

Too bad about losing the race, but it sounds like you had a heck of a
fight on your hands!   :-)

Thanks again for the feedback and any others out there wish to comment
on the performance of the CC/AI in my drivers2.txt file, please step up
and help me make 'em better.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=