rec.autos.simulators

Just curious, why is it that some people who make out they are into sim
racing, insist on cheating?    I am at present runnng in an off-line
league for ICR2, and thankfully that hasn't occured in this league as
yet, but there must be some way to deter, or eradicate cheating in
leagues.
I used to be involved in a local off-line league here in Australia,
just between six guys, who were all supposed to be friends, but still
two of the supposed friends were caught out cheating.  If it happens
between friends, what must it be like in the sim world of off-line
racing.  That episode put me off off-line racing for about three years,
and just recently i decided to bite the bullet and try another off-line
league. So far, so good!!
As an example, one guy i used to race against off-line, could always
beat me, but every time we connected by modem, i could beat him easily.
 Maybe that's a thought, anyone getting constantly beaten by a driver
in an off-line league, distance permitting, offer them a modem race to
see how they fare...
Unfortunately i am not smart enough to come up with a program that can
somehow check the validity of results from racing sims, but surely
someone out there could.  I feel a reasonable deterrent, if there was
proof of cheating from a given indvidual, would be to post their name
on RAS..     Let the world of sim racers know who the morons are who
ruin it for the rest of us sim racers who do it legally.....
Just wondering what others think about this??
Cheers,
Ron Ayton
Southern Racing

    For the finer examples of humanity the #1 reason to not cheat is because it renders
the entire exercise a complete waist of time. To others who wish to remain in sim racing
circles a major consideration is that if they are caught then their reputation is
basically stuffed and drivers in the know would shy away from any league that allowed them
to participate. This leaves the odd stray bozo who may drop into a league, have no idea,
get caught easily and then just disappear into oblivion. Not a great deal to worry about
me thinks if your in a major league run by experienced directors and filled with eagle
eyed drivers :))))

I agree with your comments to a certain extent Sammy, but sadly, untill
a racing sim programmer comes up with a foolprooth way of enabling
cheat free off line racing, we will just have to live with the
precautions the various off line leagues use.
I for another, find it distressing, to have to go to the bother of
proving what i did in an offline race to be factual, rather than
fictional, but the league organisers have a duty to perform to the rest
of the drivers in their league.
I think, as Byron told me, that the morons who do ruin it for the true
sim racer, soon get weeded out.   They obviously do not have their
heart in racing sims, and will soon find something else to bluff their
way through.
The genuine sim racer can be easily found by the ammount of enthusiam
they show for their sport.   The constant winners in any league are
always more than willing to lend a bit of their expertise to any one
who asks for a bit of help, if they can't, or won't help you, i would
then begin to suspect their winning style.   You can't expect them to
offer up their hard worked out setups, but advice is usually freely
given, and given with the same enthusiam that they show to their sim
racing.  I guess they are the key words, enthusiam and love of the
sport.
The morons who cheat, when you talk to them, it's usually just about
"how good i am" or "how many races i have won", where the enthusiast
talks about, "what a great time i am having".
Anyway, that's just a few of my thoughts on the subject.......
Cheers,
Ron

Ron,

I simpathize with you and want you to know that the software exists to
prevent most cheating.  The bad news it doesn't exist for ICR2.  RaceSet
and RaceSet2 were designed to do 2 things.  1) Prevent as much cheating as
possible and 2) put the enjoyment back into offline racing for the
directors.  I have thought about making RaceSet compatible with ICR2 but
since I don't drive IndyCars, I don't have much motivation.  There is a
certain degree of cheating that we can never prevent because the simulator
itself allows cheating and there is a small percentage of drivers out there
who are smart enough and criminally minded enough to successfully bypass
the software.  To be fair, I do recognize those drivers who are curious
only to the point of recognizing a challenge and meeting it by bypassing
the system.  These do not use what they know as a means to cheat, but as a
means to help producers like me to make the system even better.

David Martin
Producer of RaceSet

I have an example of someone I know that I suspected was cheating.  He was
very very enthusiastic and seemed to be having a great time.  The most
suspicious thing about him was that he was so good.  Anyway, the moment we
began using RaceSet to monitor the races, he quit.  Even though I never had
any proof that he was cheating, I accept that as an indirect confession.
He realized that if his performance dropped so drastically after the use of
RaceSet, everyone would suspect he was cheating.  A part of me really
wishes he would come back and prove himself to be a fair competitor, but I
doubt that will ever happen.

David Martin
Producer of RaceSet
http://ivl.card.unc.edu/RACESET/RACESET.HTM

Sighh, really wish the League I run in would
use the racesets. Suspect a lot of things would
change then!!!! I helped someone test them over
winter and they worked great but alas not enough
drivers were interested in joining. Wonder why?

"Once you've pulled the pin,
Mister Hand Grenade is no
longer your friend..."

Perhaps there are more drivers cheating than we think.  Outside of IVGA,
which has switched over to Drag Racing ( :-( ), I know of only 2 leagues
that use RaceSet.  SSCRA with Chris Keenan and IVL with 'yours truely'.  

SSCRA still runs N1.
IVL runs only N2 and does not use anything but CD distributed tracks.

My suggestion is join a league that uses RaceSet.  No, I'm not biased at
all.  :-) What would be really great is if we could get 50-60 drivers
competing for 42 starting spots at every race in a 31 race season.  IVL
has both Cup and GN length races.  SSCRA has short races (25-50 laps).

David

How do I get in touch with the IVL?
Gary

--
Remove junk from E-mail address to reply.

Scott Moore

IVL is at

http://ivl.card.unc.edu

Dennis Guyer at Hooterville is not planning on using the latest version
of RaceSet2.  He and his drivers are dissatisfied with the license
agreement and have told me that they will not be using it.  It's a shame
though, he was my primary test contact.  There was no formal beta
version of the software, but Dennis was instrumental in helping to flush
many of the bugs found in version 2.0.  When the dust settled he could
not get past the license agreement which he claimed was unfair.

David