rec.autos.simulators

Observation 2.
None of these "games" is realistic. You can't simulate motor racing
anything like properly without simulating fluid dynamics - and to do
that you need massively parrallel processing. There's lots of other
things that can't be done in games too - the biggest culprit being the
beloved GPL - since when did the cars in 67 have semi-automatic
gearboxes?

Jonathan Beckett

www.btinternet.com/~jonbeckett

With respect, you've jumped in (as seems to be the prerequisite in
here) to both defend and attach whatever you can about things I didn't
say.

Some of the creative minds in here would do well in opposition in the
House of Commons. Plenty of muck to throw, and if anybody else throws
muck you've find fault in theirs.

It would be nice if a lot of the people around here could take a step
back and remember we're talking about GAMES!

You may call them simulators, but if they are, then they're pretty
damn poor.

Jonathan Beckett

www.btinternet.com/~jonbeckett

-"It's not real"... "it's just a game"... etc.

Yes, it's not real, but so what? -It's the quality of the illusion that
matters, which, IMO, is best achieved by keeping the simulation as true to
life as possible. Full aero simulation is not a possibility yet, so
approximations are used to "simulate" it's effects, there's no reason to
discuss relative merit of games in this respect as the technology to "do it
right" doesn't exist. Same with seat of the pants sensations.

As simracers we are well aware of these facts, but just because of the
obvious links to computer _games_ we are forced to defend and justify our
hobby over and over. Sorry for the semi-rant, but this is wearing very thin
with me at the moment.

As for hype... what hype? -Comments "for" and "against" GP3 have been
exchanged here since the game was announced. Just more people jumping into
the foray and more issues clouding the discussion now release is imminent.

BTW: GPL's gearboxes are not semi-automatic, the computer helps you make a
clutchless shift. ;-)

Jan.
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since when did the cars in 67 have semi-automatic

How do you make this out? Clutchless gearchanges were possible in 1967 as
they are in gpl. Without lifting the gas, you blow the motor. Hardly how I'd
define semi automatic!

MS

Like I said, "given the limitations of modern computers".

You said-

Well, I didn't hype GP3, and I haven't tore it down.  If you look you'll see
my comments on GP3 have been balanced and positive.  Look at what you've
said here.  You've made a sweeping statement that acuses everyone.

How long have you been reading this NG, Jon?

Compared to what? Compared to reality, yes these sims have got to be just
the
tiniest taste of the real thing and no one in this group as long as I have
been reading and posting in this group has ever said otherwise. But that
doesn't make them any the less a simulator. The simulators that are used to
train pilots and astronauts only approximate reality, yet no one calls those
games. If code is used to approximate "reality" as nearly as possible than I
think you would have to call the result a simulator.

Cheers,

Kent Hosterman

Long time GPL fan and still a crappy driver.

It's actually one of the few that supports a clutch pedal if you
happen to have one implemented in you controller set.  Obviously only
so much can be done for appropriate simulation of racing an automobile
at speed.  If there weren't any, there'd probably be a lot of dead
sim'ers out there... <g>

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL

That would be why they call it a *simulation.* No one claims identity.

And chess is just a 'game.' So is tennis, football, Scrabble, Bridge. All
are deadly serious professions which people devote their lives to and in the
pursuit of which millions of dollars change hands.

Sim racing is just as legitimate a 'game' as football or tennis. . . or
chess.

Using 'game' as a synonym for 'frivolous' is, . . . well. . . frivolous, and
makes any other point you have look frivolous standing next to it.

If you don't want to take your 'games' seriously that's ok. Plenty more
people don't take tennis seriously than do. It's ok just to play around and
have fun, but don't come into the pro's clubhouse, which is what r.a.s. is,
and *** that it's "just a game."

There's always the 'duffer's' clubhouse over at alt.games.

As usual a fantastic comment, couldn't have said it better :>)

Jan.

:)

Andre

Jan.
=---

The simulator we used in hundreds of hours of training missions
for ground support of an actual spacecraft simulated only
two out of the hundreds of telemetry variables of interest
to my subsystem. Racing sims won't be up to real world aerospace
standards until the computerized stewards send a "green card"
to the driver to indicate elevated oil temperature ;)

- Matt

To whom?  And why?  I have never felt myself "forced to defend and justify
my hobby".  I play games.  They happen to do a good job of suspending my
disbelief and putting me in the***pit of a racing car.  People either
accept that I play games or they don't.  And I don't get caught up in
semantics, trying to drill into everyone's head that I am "driving a sim" as
opposed to "playing a game", because then I would just become a crashing
bore.  It's my own thing, just like riding a long alpine board when everyone
else is down in the park doing tricks.  I don't try to educate the masses
that alpine riding is somehow more pure or refined, because I have no such
opinions.  I just ride.

Stephen

It's subjective, for sure, but as you can probably see the urge is present
within me. ;-)

Oh but yes, in direct contacts with my surroundings it just "is". I always
talk about playing games as a fact of life, take it or leave it, see if I
care, etc. However in here, "the Pro's Club House" as someone called it, I
take great exception to those who attempt to rub my nose in it. I mean, I
don't go out to a Star Trek convention with a sign saying "It's just a TV
program!!", now do I?

Ok, got me there, I *am* vain in that respect.... what's an alpine board
BTW? -A type of skateboard?

Jan.
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