rec.autos.simulators

Okay, you've got a point that they're not required, but I find the club
races enjoyable, and I have been viewing them as a valid part of the
Evolution Mode -- I've not been interested in getting through the eras
as much as I have been interested in experiencing the depth of the game
across the board.  This is just a difference in our approaches,
apparently.  Plus, I've been having fun building my bank account and
buying wrecks to repair and such; I find the simulated "economy" to be
a very enjoyable part of the game -- which is a nice additition for me,
since I also find the driving model to be very satisfying.  For me, all
this adds up to an enjoyable sim experience (simulated racing +
simulated economy = fun & immersive sim experience for me).

drift.

True, but when it does happen, the car responds as convincingly as a GP
car in GPL.  I've done 4-wheel drifts in roadgoing cars before, and the
responses in NFSPU seem realistic to me.  I don't recommend it as the
fast way around a track, necesarily, but it does speak well for the
physics engine.

True, but if/when it does happen, the cars in NFSPU respond very much
like a real car would -- more than can be said for any previous NFS
game, and many other would-be "sims."  GPL definitely gets these kinds
of physics modeling details right, and I think NFSPU has also done a
good job in its own right.

Last night I was finally able to out-accelerate the AI from a standing
start, so that proves to me that in this aspect, they don't cheat
(i.e., my car's physics seems to be capable of everything their physics
model is capable of based on standing starts, anyway).  Yes, they do
seem to do a horrible job of finding the right line through the
corners/dirt, but I think that's just the state of AI programming at
this point -- NO sim has REALLY good AI at this point, and NFSPU isn't
really any worse than anybody else in this respect.

Thanks for your responses, though -- good to have an enjoyable running
dialog here on the RAS newsgroup without it coming down to virtual name-
calling!

;-)

-- JB

Sent via Deja.com http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Before you buy.

I can find a difficulty level anywhere except in those one-off single
player races. The races have difficulty levels mentioned, sure, but I
can't change them. I didn't use any assists (If you mean ABS/Traction
control, I think I wouldn't be any faster using them.).

While the game has pretty good physics for an arcade game, it's no GPL.
It's extremely hard to "ride" a slide in this game and you can't really
powerslide (partly because the tracks are too fast, I presume). I mean,
how many powerslides on the exits of turns have you had? Most of my
slides are when I go in too hot, or when I lift the throttle when not
completely straight.

Either I'm a really bad starter, or this simply isn't true. I use the
manual, and know when to slot in first gear (that is, when the game
allows you to). I beat the AI in starts only when I clearly have the
most pimped out car. Also, I don't think that it's really neat that you
can't see the tach before you are already on the move. And please don't
reply "You should listen to the engine", because the damn things sound
like diesels most of the time.

--
Anssi

Sorry for the confusion!

-- JB

My bad -- see my other post, as I was mistaken on this point.  Sorry!

Actually, I seem to be able to "ride" a slide coming out of a turn
pretty well in NFSPU.  You're right, it's no GPL -- but these aren't
1967 GP cars, either.  I imagine it's quite a bit harder to hold a
slide in a Porsche than it is in a 1967 Lotus, though, so this part
seems fairly realistic to me.  Still bugs me that you acknowledge that
the game has a pretty good physics model, then refer to it as an arcade
game in the same sentence.  I think NFSPU's physics rank right up there
behind GPL, and definitely ahead of SCGT (by FAR).  Even Viper Racing
comes up somewhat short in comparison, in my book.  Just my opinion, of
course, but I really love the physics modeling in this game (er, sim).

This statement really bothered me when I read it, because I KNOW I sit
there and watch the tach while waiting for the announcer to give the
"GO" call.  So, I fired up the game to see why I was seeing the tach
and you aren't, and I realized that you can't see the tach OVERLAY, but
you CAN see the tach on the dash if you use the in-car view.  This
difference in driving view preferences may explain why we have
differing opinions of the game -- I do like the sense of speed you get
with the bumper-cam view (which I assume you must prefer), but the in-
car view just "feels" right to me, so it's something of a tradeoff.

-- JB

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

[Major clipping below]

Oh yes, this time, my bad. I only used the in-car view for a few times.
I didn't like the way it swayed around with the 356. I guess I'd better
at least try some starts in the in-car view.

And now, for the Grand Finale, some times achieved by my approach.
(Mostly in 911 G1). Just for comparison, not to say "the one with the
better times has the "better" opinion". But if your times are
significantly faster, I think there's some discussion to be done about
my methods.

Cote d'Azur 2.20
Schwarzwald 3.11
Normandy 2.30
Zone Industrielle 2.31
Monte Carlo 1 1.06.31

--
Anssi

Were there in multi-laps Quick-races with opponents using same car?

My best lap in Monte Carlo 2 is 1:00:78 with GT1, 2-lap Quick race, forward,
7 opponents, same car, manual transmission. 1:02 with Moby***, same
settings.

Will try other tracks and see what I can do.

--desmocha

I just tried MC2. To show how ridiculously good the tuning parts are, my
pimped out 996 Turbo previously had a 56:15 lap record, and I did one
that was a bit under 1:00, expert difficulty, 7 opponents in same car, 2
lap, forward. I was past the other cars before I first got to the
straightaway. I did a bit under 1:00 in the GT1 with no opponents and
Moby*** (just tried, same settings as with the 996) 1:00:25. GT1 has a
top gear that is too long, and Moby*** one that is too short, even
though they don't matter too much on this track.

I use the manual, naturally.

--
Anssi

Cote d'Azur 2:42.03 (GT2)
Schwarzwald 3:42.90 (GT2)
Normandy 2:54.96 (GT2)
Zone Industrielle 2:59.65 (911 Turbo)
Monte Carlo 1 1:23.40 (GT2)

I couldn't beat my own best time from Evolution Mode at the Zone using
a GT2, for some reason.  Go figure.

I also use the manual ***.

Judging by my times compared to yours, you ARE a sim racing god, and
I'm the guy Volkswagen is looking for ("Drivers Wanted" -- apparently
you RACE, while I just seem to be cruising around like some old fart
with my turn signal flashing non-stop <G>).

The GT2 kind of "dumbs" things down for me -- it's supernatural grip
levels make it feel less lively than the older cars.  I guess that's
why I like to keep re-running the classic and golden era events, rather
than just charging through the tournaments.

Just for kicks, grab yourself a 550 Spyder and try running it for a
while on all the various tracks.  That car in NFSPU reminds me a LOT of
the driving experience in GPL -- AND you can carry a slide a lot more
realistically with the 550 than with a GT2 or one of the other more
modern cars.

I like to tweak the 550s suspension as follows: Leave the suspension
stiffness slider alone, but adjust the ride height and the shock travel
to the left until all three sliders line up; then, move the toe-in to
the first tic mark to the right of center; for the downforce, I think I
go 60 in the rear and 55 in the front.  With this kind of setup, the
550 reminds me a lot of the Coventry, or the GP2 and GP3 cars in GPL.

The fact that I've been concentrating on the older eras may be why I'm
enjoying the game more than you are.  After our discussions here and my
runs in the GT2 tonight, I has occured to me that NFSPU seems to have
two personalities: The older eras are like "Porsche Legends" (more in-
line with "Grand Prix Legends," if you will), while the latest models
have something of a "Porsche GT" feel (more along the lines of "Sports
Car GT," which I never really warmed up to).

Just my own personal opinions, of course.  You have made me think a lot
about what I like in this game, though, and I guess it comes down to
the fact that I just enjoy the physics modeling in the older eras a
lot.  In fact, I don't even really care if the AI is super-competitive
-- I just view it all as a fast drive on an enjoyable stretch of
highway, which ALWAYS leaves me grinning and wanting more.  For me, I
guess NFSPU is the equivalent of a fast, early-morning drive down the
Pacific Coast Highway with no cops around and full diplomatic immunity.
<G>

So go grab a 550 Spyder and spend some time getting used to it, then
let me know what you think.  It helps if you fancy yourself to be a
virtual James Dean,of course, but watch out for those station wagons .
. .

(Sorry -- poor taste, but I couldn't resist! <G>)

-- JB

After finishing Factory Driver and Evolution, there's not much more exciting
stuff other than trying to get the fastest records :-)

Anssi is fast. The best I've done so far for Mont 1 is 1:13 with Moby and
2:34 in Zone Indust (could have been better if not slowed down by one AI
Moby*** which swerved into my way at the last corner). All in Quick Race
with with 7 opponents.

I read one guy finished Autobahn in 2:18. Wonder how he did that.

I think the GT2 is actually a raced version of 95 911 Turbo 3.6.

How do you find 78 911 3.3 Turbo, the one in the last race in Golden Era?
That's the one that gives me the most problem. To me, it gets into a spin
much more easily than other models.

--desmocha

The GT2, in my opinion, just sucks. You can get the 996 ('00) Turbo to
grip MUCH better with tuning parts, and the GT2 also lets go INSANELY
***ly when you go over the grip limit. GT1 and Moby*** are also
faster than the GT2 on pretty much any track.

I think the most fun I've had in the game (single-player) is in the '78
Turbo, suitable hopped up. That seems to have a nice power-over grip
ratio and also feels like a real car.

I think what you said about the 550 is all true ( I noticed that the few
times I drove it in the Evolution mode). Thanks for the tweaking tips.
However, I just need to get the fastest car that I can. BTW, in real
life I ride a Honda CR500R, and any dirtbiker can tell you how that
thing goes :)

PS. I DO enjoy the game. There were just some notions here in the group
that I couldn't let go unanswered. NFSPU is just behing my all-time
favorites: GPL, Gran Turismo, CMR. Multi-player in this game is a hoot
(prolly the best multi-player racing I've done, including GPL (where the
cars are too fragile). If only my racing buddies practised more,
trouncing them is getting embarrassing :)

Just mentioned in the other post that this is the car I enjoy the most.
It just feels right (plus I put some British racing green, yellow
stripes and a "7" on it :).

--
Anssi

--
Anssi

--desmocha

--
Anssi