rec.autos.simulators

|> Again, the video card is not that important in DOS games.  If somebody
|> told you otherwise, forget it.  Things are quite different if you want
|> to run Windows for DirectX games though.

This is contrary to what I have just experienced. I recently replaced my
ATI Mach64 2MB VRAM with a Matrox MGA Millennium 2MB WRAM, and all my DOS
games now ran smoother. In NFS, I could turn on more details while
maintaining a smooth frame rate, where I couldn't possibly do with the ATI.
In GP2, the estimated frame rate jumped ~3 fps. In the Windows department,
I didn't notice a significant improvement though.

--

My $0.02 (MSRP, plus shipping and handling, and applicable taxes. O.A.C.,
license, registration, PDI, freight, and insurance extra. Price subject
to change without notice. Cash discounted, credit cards please add 3%)

I have a P120 overclocked to 133, a motherboard with Intel TXC
chipset, a Hercules Dynamite 128 and this are the results:

Processor (x86): 5
Dos Version: 00000007h
Running windows 95 or above
Speed (c.f. DX2-66): 259
Video speed: 500

Bye

Karsten

Karsten Hoffmann, 23717 Griebel
Schleswig Holstein, Germany

I too have a ati 64 with 2mb thought gp2 was low on fps = estimated17fps
on the auto mode.i have a p133-16mb pipelineburst-triton.
can you mail me for best hardware and info on how to get racing you lot.
I think that i'm fast but don't have anybody to compare times with,been a
f1gp fan for 3.5 yrs now please mail back.

Just went out and bought a Lightspeed 128 to replace the S3 trio 64+ on my
p5-150. I have noticed some improvement in frame rate on GP2 and NASCAR but not
 5fps. The log:on speed went from 170 something to 440 something, what that
means in the real world I dont know. I payed $250 US for the card so I dont
expect miracles and anybody that does is a fool. I am sure you will see some
speed up with this card in DOS but I think 5fps maybe a little optimistic. If
you have some tips to help speed things up I would love to hear them as I have
only played with the card a little. Are there any utilities to help this?
Thanks.

Hi Majin,

This isn't meant to be a vendetta against you (!), I must say that as
far as GP2 is concerned you are absolutely right. The way the program is
written is highly restricting to faster video cards. OTOH, using faster
video cards in NASCAR, ICR2 and especially ICR2'95 will show a BIG
improvement, because those games are written is such a way that the
better video card will be better.

I currently have a Diamond Stealth 32, and a Herc Dynamite 128 which
replaced my Hercules Stingray. I have benchmarked all three of those,
and also tried my friend's Millenium - no difference in perceived frame
rate on GP2, although video scores varied wildly. On ICR2 however,
different story - the Dynamite and Millenium were streets ahead.

Considering GP2 was used to market and sell the P-200, it's ironic that
it takes little or no advantage of a better video card, despite
detecting that it's better during start up. I have a feeling we must be
missing something, but I'm damned if I can see what it is.

Cheers!
John

                     _________________________________
         __    _____|                                 |_____    __
________|  |__|    :|           John Wallace          |     |__|  |________

  \    :|  |::|    :|        Team WW Racing TSW       |     |::|  |     /
    >  :|  |::|    :|_________________________________|     |::|  |   <
  /    :|__|::|____/       * Sim Racing News *         \____|::|__|     \
/______:/  \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/  \._____\
               http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

It seems we are indeed missing something - modern, optimized
video code that's written to take advantage of today's hardware.

GP2 is a great sim - but it could be so much better on today's
hardware instead of requiring PPro 200s to play with lots
of detail.

--
Colin Stuckless

Memorial University of Newfoundland

I have ICR2 - and strangely enough - I get a 0% speed increase too. How
are you getting a big speed up in this program????

Quake (the shareware demo version) runs about 5% faster though.

So, as far as I can tell, gfx cards make *** all difference in DOS
games. Windows, on the other hand... totally SCREAMS! :) In the polygon
benchmark that comes with the card I get 150 million pixels/s at
1280x1024x8bit. Ideal for quick vector gfx games in windows.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"One of these days I'm going to cut you into little pieces" Pink Floyd

Try Indycar 2 with the new card.....

                     _________________________________
         __    _____|                                 |_____    __
________|  |__|    :|           John Wallace          |     |__|  |________

  \    :|  |::|    :|        Team WW Racing TSW       |     |::|  |     /
    >  :|  |::|    :|_________________________________|     |::|  |   <
  /    :|__|::|____/       * Sim Racing News *         \____|::|__|     \
/______:/  \::/ http://www.racesimcentral.net/\::/  \._____\
               http://www.racesimcentral.net/~harmon/simnews

: >I don't know John.  I know that you write SRN and judging from the
: >quality of it, you seemed to be a very trusty person :)
: >
: >But did you check the Quake frame rate page?  As I said in my other
: >posts, benchmark scores doesn't seemed to reflect the price of the
: >video cards.  I know there is some slow DOS performers like Diamond
: >Edge but those are special cases.  I still think that most PCI cards
: >performs the same.  Some posts from GP2 users (I've seen two) who
: >actually bought Hercules over their old video card (non-ATI) confirms
: >this.  They got large increase in the video score from GP2LOG.TXT but
: >no decrease in the CPU occupancy at the same graphic setting and the
: >same set frame rate.

: Hi Majin,

: This isn't meant to be a vendetta against you (!), I must say that as
: far as GP2 is concerned you are absolutely right. The way the program is
: written is highly restricting to faster video cards. OTOH, using faster
: video cards in NASCAR, ICR2 and especially ICR2'95 will show a BIG
: improvement, because those games are written is such a way that the
: better video card will be better.

: I currently have a Diamond Stealth 32, and a Herc Dynamite 128 which
: replaced my Hercules Stingray. I have benchmarked all three of those,
: and also tried my friend's Millenium - no difference in perceived frame
: rate on GP2, although video scores varied wildly. On ICR2 however,
: different story - the Dynamite and Millenium were streets ahead.

: Considering GP2 was used to market and sell the P-200, it's ironic that
: it takes little or no advantage of a better video card, despite
: detecting that it's better during start up. I have a feeling we must be
: missing something, but I'm damned if I can see what it is.

: Cheers!
: John

:                      _________________________________
:          __    _____|                                 |_____    __
: ________|  |__|    :|           John Wallace          |     |__|  |________

:   \    :|  |::|    :|        Team WW Racing TSW       |     |::|  |     /
:     >  :|  |::|    :|_________________________________|     |::|  |   <
:   /    :|__|::|____/       * Sim Racing News *         \____|::|__|     \
: /______:/  \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/  \._____\
:                http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

--

I have been getting some very contrasting opinions of the Diamond Edge
3d card from this group and from technical people I talk to at different
computer stores.  I have heard on this group that it is a very average
card when performing 'normally' in DOS and Windows but has the new 3d
technology built into it for future games.  On the other hand all
technical staff I talk to here in Melbourne say that it is very fast
and the best card you can get ... one guy even told me it outperforms
the Matrox!

I am very confused about all these differing opinions, but at the moment
I am tending to believe what I hear on this group, as some of the guys I
have talked to seem to have some strange ideas about what is good
hardware.

Mark.

Mark Farmer
"Markk II"

Graduate Diploma in Computer Science - Latrobe University

There is NO great improvement in using the different drivers modes, supported by different cards and
drivers, the only thing you'll get is more pages, resolution and colors. NO SPEED.... I don't believe
that ICR2 or NASCAR or any other game is faster than GP2. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is the programmers
ability to cut edges, remove code ect. to gain speed. NO ACCELARATION..... Look at USNF. The game
supports the latest VESA drivers ect. and a LOT of screen modes. But is it any faster ? NO....
The only way you can remove the bottleneck in SVGA graphics, is whan using accelerated functions. Try
NASCAR on a Matrox card.. 25 frames on a P100 with ALL detail on...

LB

If the video card makes no difference in Dos  then how come I can double
my frame rate in Duke Nukem by just changing Video cards.

What you have to realize is that GP2 may not gain much from a faster
card but that is not to say other dos games don't.

Try NFS with a slow card vs a fast and see the difference.

The bottleneck in GP2 happens at the main proccesor,  whereas duke
nukem  and other dos games hit a bottleneck with the video cards ability
to update the screen.

IMHO   Mac

The machine is a P100, 96mb ram (non EDO), 256k (non-PB) cache.  I
noticed that the log:on video speed for many Millenium owners was over
400, but mine only hits about 190.  Many of the other posters had
P133-P166 machines - does that account for the massive difference in the
video speed scores?

Still happy with the purchase, in any case, as I took no performance hit
in Windows and greatly improved DOS performance.

Rick