rec.autos.simulators

OT: Console Choice

Andreas Nystro

OT: Console Choice

by Andreas Nystro » Sat, 15 Feb 2003 04:51:04

I think GT3 with simulation tires and all steeringhelps, asm, tcs turned off
feels pretty good actually. Sure it has it flaws, but still its more of a
sim, then arcade.


Steve Smit

OT: Console Choice

by Steve Smit » Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:03:24

Great strategy...if it was working.  But it's not.  MS is actually losing
market share.

WebTV was supposed to be the convergence vehicle.  Seamus Blackley (Bach's
predecessor as the head of the games division - don't you people read the
papers?) swore up and down that the Xbox was--and would always be--for
gamers, not Mom 'n' Pop couch potatos propped up in the living room in front
of the TV.  He said this because any hint of convergence would be viewed
with suspicion by gamers, who were--and are--convinced that the Xbox is a
stalking horse for MS's idea of an Internet "appliance" (and guess what - it
is).  Which explains why they're staying away from the Xbox in droves.  (The
other reason, of course, is that the PS2 has better games.)

I'd have to pick the Tampa Bay Raiders.


> Steve (or Robbie - who's Robbie?)

> Your "prediction" is a little late, MS has already talked about this
> convergence long ago as part of their overall strategy (and various
> publications as well).  I heard the convergence speech about just such a
> device by a Wall Street guru 7 years ago.  So who do you like in the last
> Super Bowl? :0)

> MS knows this is a marathon not a sprint.  If you're MS, you lose money
now
> to build market share over the years and win when the stakes are much
> higher.  I'd rather own 40% of a $100B market than 70% of a $30B market
> (just throwing out numbers for illustration).

> --
> Joe M.



> > Ya gotta ask yerself: if the Xbox is where it's at, how come it lost MS
> one
> > BILLION dollars last near (and is projected to lose $2bn this year).
> OTOH,
> > the PS2's contribution to Sony's bottom line is 60% (and considering how
> > deep Sony is into TVs, cell phones, Hollywood studios, the music biz,
> etc.,
> > that's nothing short of astonishing).  Fearless prediction: MS is taking
> the
> > Xbox upscale - aiming to make the Xbox2 a set-top box that will be a
> > living-room replacement for the PC, "converging" games, TV, music, and
> > Internet access (remember WebTV?), where they'll be able to hide the
> > $$$-hemorraghing games division's losses.  If you hate PCs, this is a
Good
> > Thing.  As a car guy, tho, I'm looking forward to the PS3/GT4
combination
> > (which should also put the kibosh on rampant cheating).

> > --Robbie Bach






> > > > > then again, you can get online with PS2 also, and you can always
> play
> > > SOCOM
> > > > > right now online, or wait for GT4 - online, that will be kickass
:)

> > > > SOCOM is littered with people who cheat, and then you have a mix of
> > > > 56K'ers and people on broadband.  On Xbox Live you have Ghost Recon
> > > > MotoGP, NBA2K, NFL2k, NHL2K, Unreal as well as the upcoming Project
> > > > Gotham Racing 2.  As far as online play, the PS2 can't hold a candle
> to
> > > > Xbox.

> > > Agreed.  PS2 online strategy is applying a band-aid to an amputation
> (the
> > > disgusting analogy for too little too late).  SOCOM is a poor man's
> > version
> > > of Ghost Recon (or any Clancy tactical shooter).  Xbox was designed
from
> > the
> > > ground up to be online and it's a very impressive implementation of
that
> > > strategy.  The one thing that kills me is the lack of a proper FF
wheel.

> > > Let's hope the wheel is in development and waiting for simultaneous
> > release
> > > with a killer game that will sell the wheel as GT3 sold Logitech
wheels.
> > > Perhaps PGR2 which will have XBL support and a greater emphasis on
> > realism.

> > > --
> > > Joe M.

Steve Smit

OT: Console Choice

by Steve Smit » Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:10:20

It did sell better.  It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's vast
ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several F1
drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car guys who
shoulda been the target audience).  Initial sales were disappointing.  But
it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of
remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the market (not
even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number is now
said to be somewhere north of 200K.  This makes it one of the best-selling
sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games.


> On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:59:08 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >Ya gotta ask yerself: if the Xbox is where it's at, how come it lost MS
one
> >BILLION dollars last near

> If GPL is where it's at, how come it didn't sell better?

> Jason

Jason Moy

OT: Console Choice

by Jason Moy » Sun, 16 Feb 2003 06:25:53

On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:20 GMT, "Steve Smith"


>It did sell better.  It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's vast
>ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several F1
>drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car guys who
>shoulda been the target audience).  Initial sales were disappointing.  But
>it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of
>remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the market (not
>even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number is now
>said to be somewhere north of 200K.  This makes it one of the best-selling
>sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games.

You're right, and I would also suspect that ultimately the Xbox will
achieve a similar status (if not among car guys).  My reasoning:

1. Most of anticipated games are just starting to trickle out for the
Xbox now.     Honestly, considering how badly Xbox Live is smashing
the competition right now and that new consoles aren't due until
Christmas 2005, I don't see how the Xbox won't ultimately be an
incredible success.

2. No new consoles until Christmas 2005 (at the earliest).

3. Xbox Live.  If anything inspires longevity and dedication among
gamers, it's solid multiplayer.  Sony is getting annihilated in this
area.

Jason

Steve Smit

OT: Console Choice

by Steve Smit » Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:27:52

Wrong-o!  MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by now.
They have 75,000.  At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade.

(To be fair, Sony's PS2 online experience is getting whacked with rampant
cheating - something NoBaloney'd better fix...or else.)

Consoles' product cycle (hitherto 5 years) is under intense pressure from
The Console Wars.  MS has pushed up the intro of the Xbox Lite (er, Next)
and prolly won't wait for Xmas '05 for the Xbox2.  Likewise, Sony isn't
going to wait 'til then to roll out the PS3.

This is a Deathmatch!


> On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:20 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >It did sell better.  It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's vast
> >ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several F1
> >drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car guys
who
> >shoulda been the target audience).  Initial sales were disappointing.
But
> >it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of
> >remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the market
(not
> >even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number is
now
> >said to be somewhere north of 200K.  This makes it one of the
best-selling
> >sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games.

> You're right, and I would also suspect that ultimately the Xbox will
> achieve a similar status (if not among car guys).  My reasoning:

> 1. Most of anticipated games are just starting to trickle out for the
> Xbox now.     Honestly, considering how badly Xbox Live is smashing
> the competition right now and that new consoles aren't due until
> Christmas 2005, I don't see how the Xbox won't ultimately be an
> incredible success.

> 2. No new consoles until Christmas 2005 (at the earliest).

> 3. Xbox Live.  If anything inspires longevity and dedication among
> gamers, it's solid multiplayer.  Sony is getting annihilated in this
> area.

> Jason

Joe M

OT: Console Choice

by Joe M » Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:59:16

XBL has over 250,000 customers.  You've got bad info there Steve.

--
Joe M.


> Wrong-o!  MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by now.
> They have 75,000.  At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade.

> (To be fair, Sony's PS2 online experience is getting whacked with rampant
> cheating - something NoBaloney'd better fix...or else.)

> Consoles' product cycle (hitherto 5 years) is under intense pressure from
> The Console Wars.  MS has pushed up the intro of the Xbox Lite (er, Next)
> and prolly won't wait for Xmas '05 for the Xbox2.  Likewise, Sony isn't
> going to wait 'til then to roll out the PS3.

> This is a Deathmatch!



> > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:20 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> > >It did sell better.  It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's
vast
> > >ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several
F1
> > >drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car guys
> who
> > >shoulda been the target audience).  Initial sales were disappointing.
> But
> > >it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of
> > >remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the market
> (not
> > >even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number is
> now
> > >said to be somewhere north of 200K.  This makes it one of the
> best-selling
> > >sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games.

> > You're right, and I would also suspect that ultimately the Xbox will
> > achieve a similar status (if not among car guys).  My reasoning:

> > 1. Most of anticipated games are just starting to trickle out for the
> > Xbox now.     Honestly, considering how badly Xbox Live is smashing
> > the competition right now and that new consoles aren't due until
> > Christmas 2005, I don't see how the Xbox won't ultimately be an
> > incredible success.

> > 2. No new consoles until Christmas 2005 (at the earliest).

> > 3. Xbox Live.  If anything inspires longevity and dedication among
> > gamers, it's solid multiplayer.  Sony is getting annihilated in this
> > area.

> > Jason

Steve Smit

OT: Console Choice

by Steve Smit » Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:07:42

I read in the WSJ that they'd sold 210,000 online kits...but that only
72,000 people have signed up for the service yet.


> XBL has over 250,000 customers.  You've got bad info there Steve.

> --
> Joe M.



> > Wrong-o!  MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by
now.
> > They have 75,000.  At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade.

> > (To be fair, Sony's PS2 online experience is getting whacked with
rampant
> > cheating - something NoBaloney'd better fix...or else.)

> > Consoles' product cycle (hitherto 5 years) is under intense pressure
from
> > The Console Wars.  MS has pushed up the intro of the Xbox Lite (er,
Next)
> > and prolly won't wait for Xmas '05 for the Xbox2.  Likewise, Sony isn't
> > going to wait 'til then to roll out the PS3.

> > This is a Deathmatch!



> > > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:20 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> > > >It did sell better.  It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's
> vast
> > > >ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several
> F1
> > > >drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car
guys
> > who
> > > >shoulda been the target audience).  Initial sales were disappointing.
> > But
> > > >it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of
> > > >remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the
market
> > (not
> > > >even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number
is
> > now
> > > >said to be somewhere north of 200K.  This makes it one of the
> > best-selling
> > > >sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games.

> > > You're right, and I would also suspect that ultimately the Xbox will
> > > achieve a similar status (if not among car guys).  My reasoning:

> > > 1. Most of anticipated games are just starting to trickle out for the
> > > Xbox now.     Honestly, considering how badly Xbox Live is smashing
> > > the competition right now and that new consoles aren't due until
> > > Christmas 2005, I don't see how the Xbox won't ultimately be an
> > > incredible success.

> > > 2. No new consoles until Christmas 2005 (at the earliest).

> > > 3. Xbox Live.  If anything inspires longevity and dedication among
> > > gamers, it's solid multiplayer.  Sony is getting annihilated in this
> > > area.

> > > Jason

Jason Moy

OT: Console Choice

by Jason Moy » Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:25:35

On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:27:52 GMT, "Steve Smith"


>Wrong-o!  MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by now.
>They have 75,000.  At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade.

Weird.  I can't argue your info, but Xbox Magazine claims 250,000
subscribers were signed up before the most recent issue was put to
press.

Jason

Steve Smit

OT: Console Choice

by Steve Smit » Mon, 17 Feb 2003 01:09:00

Gee, you don't suppose a magazine licensed to use the name "Xbox" would have
a vested interest, do ya?  (In the pub biz, we called 'em "captive" mags.)
In any case, monthlies are put to bed 90 days in advance; dailies the night
before.


> On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:27:52 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >Wrong-o!  MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by
now.
> >They have 75,000.  At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade.

> Weird.  I can't argue your info, but Xbox Magazine claims 250,000
> subscribers were signed up before the most recent issue was put to
> press.

> Jason

Jason Moy

OT: Console Choice

by Jason Moy » Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:56:17

On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:09:00 GMT, "Steve Smith"


>Gee, you don't suppose a magazine licensed to use the name "Xbox" would have
>a vested interest, do ya?  (In the pub biz, we called 'em "captive" mags.)

Yeah, hence my not arguing your figures. =)

Jason

Andreas Nystro

OT: Console Choice

by Andreas Nystro » Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:58:45

worst part is that XBOX live will soon get pay-to-play


> On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:20 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >It did sell better.  It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's vast
> >ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several F1
> >drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car guys
who
> >shoulda been the target audience).  Initial sales were disappointing.
But
> >it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of
> >remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the market
(not
> >even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number is
now
> >said to be somewhere north of 200K.  This makes it one of the
best-selling
> >sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games.

> You're right, and I would also suspect that ultimately the Xbox will
> achieve a similar status (if not among car guys).  My reasoning:

> 1. Most of anticipated games are just starting to trickle out for the
> Xbox now.     Honestly, considering how badly Xbox Live is smashing
> the competition right now and that new consoles aren't due until
> Christmas 2005, I don't see how the Xbox won't ultimately be an
> incredible success.

> 2. No new consoles until Christmas 2005 (at the earliest).

> 3. Xbox Live.  If anything inspires longevity and dedication among
> gamers, it's solid multiplayer.  Sony is getting annihilated in this
> area.

> Jason

Andreas Nystro

OT: Console Choice

by Andreas Nystro » Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:00:39

http://forums.xbox.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1454742


> On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:27:52 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >Wrong-o!  MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by
now.
> >They have 75,000.  At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade.

> Weird.  I can't argue your info, but Xbox Magazine claims 250,000
> subscribers were signed up before the most recent issue was put to
> press.

> Jason

Internet Use

OT: Console Choice

by Internet Use » Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:04:14


> worst part is that XBOX live will soon get pay-to-play

Microsoft has never denied this.  They've always said that there will be
certain games that will require a subscription fee.  Games that require
dedicated servers to support a persistent state world, etc...  There's
nothing wrong with Live and it's business model.  It's been a tremendous
success and that should continue.
Steve Smit

OT: Console Choice

by Steve Smit » Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:16:36

Holy she-iz-it, Andreas!  It's worse than I thought!


> http://forums.xbox.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1454742



> > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:27:52 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> > >Wrong-o!  MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by
> now.
> > >They have 75,000.  At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade.

> > Weird.  I can't argue your info, but Xbox Magazine claims 250,000
> > subscribers were signed up before the most recent issue was put to
> > press.

> > Jason

Larr

OT: Console Choice

by Larr » Thu, 20 Feb 2003 02:43:06

Who didn't see that coming?

I didn't mind paying for NROS.  The quality of console games isn't high
enough for me to consider paying though.

Larry



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