rec.autos.simulators

LCD dissapointing for sims

Ian Thorp

LCD dissapointing for sims

by Ian Thorp » Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:42:56


Hey, I have 2 Samsung 193P 19" LCDs which are targeted at graphic
artists. They have 20ms response time so I was worried that the blurring
would be bad, but so far I can barely notice it. I noticed some in
Battlefield
, but only in high contrast scenes. For example when you look from a dark
room at the sky. In GTR I haven't noticed any blurring so far and certainly
nothing that would make me feel nauseated.

In some cases reponse times specified by manufacurers aren't mutualy
compatible. For example some manufacurers specify the response time
from grey to white, some from white to black. Your Viewsonic might be more
then 20ms. Either that or it could be defective.

or it could be one beer too many

Doug Millike

LCD dissapointing for sims

by Doug Millike » Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:44:41

Does anyone know if there is a true test program available on the
www to test *overall* display latency?  I have a feeling this might
be different than the numbers quoted by manufacturers.

Here's one approach I've heard of, written for custom hardware (won't work
on PC's).  Command the screen to change from white to black when a joystick
button or key is pressed.  Then put an oscilloscope on the button/key
output and also on a photo diode that looks at the screen.  Use the 'scope
to measure the *true* time between input and screen response.

Some flat panels (LCD's) had up to 7 frames of delay at 60Hz frame rate
and the best he found (some time ago) were 3 frames of delay.

CRT's are usually 1 frame (assuming a decent graphics card), or 16.66 ms
at 60Hz.

-- Doug Milliken
   www.millikenresearch.com


> I tried to find a 19 inch that ran 1600x1200, but no luck. The 20 inch was
> all I could get..



> >I think a 19 with 12 or 8ms is as much as you want to push at this time...
> >The bigger one's aren't 'there' yet.

> > -Larry



> >> After much debating about latency, I took the plunge today, and bought a
> >> Viewsonic VP201 20 inch LCD monitor (1600x1200) and an ATI 800XT platinum
> >> video card to drive it.

> >> The screen is just brilliant for photos and other still use, but I bought
> >> it specifically for sims. It was a bit let down. It has 16ms response
> >> time, which I understand is about as fast as it gets for a big screen,
> >> and I understood that this was ok, but it gets very blurry when the car
> >> is cornering. It is not only disconcerting, but I'm actually feeling
> >> nauseated.

> >> I read some great reviews of this screen, and a couple of others that
> >> warned that it wasn't fantatic for ***, but bought it anyway.

> >> At least I didn't buy two of them! I'll wait until things improve
> >> further, or buy a smaller (faster) LCD for sim racing.

> >> Tim

Larr

LCD dissapointing for sims

by Larr » Sun, 20 Mar 2005 02:15:44

I got the Hyundai L90D+ in from Newegg on Wednesday (day ahead of schedule).

No dead pixels.  No stuck pixels.  No sub-pixel issues.  Cool :)

If you like a bright monitor, you will LOVE this thing.  You could guide a
lost ship at sea back into port with this thing :)

I've only run NR2003 so far but I've noted no smearing or streaking at all.
Colors are very bright.

I'm using the DVI input (it has both, something not common on these class
monitors).

If you want to use the Pivot feature you'll have to spring for the Pivot Pro
software on your own ($40 download) as it does not come with it.

So far I like it.  Not bad for $359.00 !

Now, I do have one complaint.  The control buttons.  Luckily you don't have
to use them often because they SUCK!  I mean they REALLY suck.  They are
membrane-type buttons and they are a real pain in the ass, especially
because they are on the bottom lip of the monitor bezel.

-Larry


> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:22:20 GMT, "Steve Smith"

>>Agree w. DGF.  Maybe TE didn't properly vet the settings (rez, refresh,
>>etc.)  I've used a 25ms 19" Dell for sims and FPS for a year.  Works gr8
>>w.
>>driving sims, not so gr8 w. flying sims, and a little worse w.
>>quick-twitch,
>>run-n-gun, shoot-em-ups like UT, Far Cry & BF1942.  But fine for racing.
>>Yer LCD is prolly twice as nice as mine.  Check yer settings.

> For those of us who are ignorant savages (like moi)-what settings?
> I run the Dell FP2001 (16 ms refresh) at the native 1600 x 1200
> setting, and I get some blurring in turns (as well as in UT99 when
> rapidly changing my view).  With a GeForce 5700FX Ultra that I
> have I don't know if it is the monitor, the video card, or something
> else...

Steve Smit

LCD dissapointing for sims

by Steve Smit » Sun, 20 Mar 2005 07:04:11

Thanks for sharing, Larry!


> I got the Hyundai L90D+ in from Newegg on Wednesday (day ahead of
schedule).

> No dead pixels.  No stuck pixels.  No sub-pixel issues.  Cool :)

> If you like a bright monitor, you will LOVE this thing.  You could guide a
> lost ship at sea back into port with this thing :)

> I've only run NR2003 so far but I've noted no smearing or streaking at
all.
> Colors are very bright.

> I'm using the DVI input (it has both, something not common on these class
> monitors).

> If you want to use the Pivot feature you'll have to spring for the Pivot
Pro
> software on your own ($40 download) as it does not come with it.

> So far I like it.  Not bad for $359.00 !

> Now, I do have one complaint.  The control buttons.  Luckily you don't
have
> to use them often because they SUCK!  I mean they REALLY suck.  They are
> membrane-type buttons and they are a real pain in the ass, especially
> because they are on the bottom lip of the monitor bezel.

> -Larry



> > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:22:20 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >>Agree w. DGF.  Maybe TE didn't properly vet the settings (rez, refresh,
> >>etc.)  I've used a 25ms 19" Dell for sims and FPS for a year.  Works gr8
> >>w.
> >>driving sims, not so gr8 w. flying sims, and a little worse w.
> >>quick-twitch,
> >>run-n-gun, shoot-em-ups like UT, Far Cry & BF1942.  But fine for racing.
> >>Yer LCD is prolly twice as nice as mine.  Check yer settings.

> > For those of us who are ignorant savages (like moi)-what settings?
> > I run the Dell FP2001 (16 ms refresh) at the native 1600 x 1200
> > setting, and I get some blurring in turns (as well as in UT99 when
> > rapidly changing my view).  With a GeForce 5700FX Ultra that I
> > have I don't know if it is the monitor, the video card, or something
> > else...

jwilson5

LCD dissapointing for sims

by jwilson5 » Sun, 20 Mar 2005 09:46:31

Hey got mine on wednesday too,and it's great,one dead pixel I think(its
always blue)nascar 2003 looks great no ghosting no smearing,tried mohuo
and it looks great too.

> Thanks for sharing, Larry!



>>I got the Hyundai L90D+ in from Newegg on Wednesday (day ahead of

> schedule).

>>No dead pixels.  No stuck pixels.  No sub-pixel issues.  Cool :)

>>If you like a bright monitor, you will LOVE this thing.  You could guide a
>>lost ship at sea back into port with this thing :)

>>I've only run NR2003 so far but I've noted no smearing or streaking at

> all.

>>Colors are very bright.

>>I'm using the DVI input (it has both, something not common on these class
>>monitors).

>>If you want to use the Pivot feature you'll have to spring for the Pivot

> Pro

>>software on your own ($40 download) as it does not come with it.

>>So far I like it.  Not bad for $359.00 !

>>Now, I do have one complaint.  The control buttons.  Luckily you don't

> have

>>to use them often because they SUCK!  I mean they REALLY suck.  They are
>>membrane-type buttons and they are a real pain in the ass, especially
>>because they are on the bottom lip of the monitor bezel.

>>-Larry



>>>On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:22:20 GMT, "Steve Smith"

>>>>Agree w. DGF.  Maybe TE didn't properly vet the settings (rez, refresh,
>>>>etc.)  I've used a 25ms 19" Dell for sims and FPS for a year.  Works gr8
>>>>w.
>>>>driving sims, not so gr8 w. flying sims, and a little worse w.
>>>>quick-twitch,
>>>>run-n-gun, shoot-em-ups like UT, Far Cry & BF1942.  But fine for racing.
>>>>Yer LCD is prolly twice as nice as mine.  Check yer settings.

>>>For those of us who are ignorant savages (like moi)-what settings?
>>>I run the Dell FP2001 (16 ms refresh) at the native 1600 x 1200
>>>setting, and I get some blurring in turns (as well as in UT99 when
>>>rapidly changing my view).  With a GeForce 5700FX Ultra that I
>>>have I don't know if it is the monitor, the video card, or something
>>>else...

Larr

LCD dissapointing for sims

by Larr » Sun, 20 Mar 2005 13:14:32

That's a sub-pixel issue.  It may (or may not) go away eventually.

It's hard to get a perfect panel.  Nearly impossible.  It's pure luck when
you do.

-Larry


> Hey got mine on wednesday too,and it's great,one dead pixel I think(its
> always blue)nascar 2003 looks great no ghosting no smearing,tried mohuo
> and it looks great too.


>> Thanks for sharing, Larry!



>>>I got the Hyundai L90D+ in from Newegg on Wednesday (day ahead of

>> schedule).

>>>No dead pixels.  No stuck pixels.  No sub-pixel issues.  Cool :)

>>>If you like a bright monitor, you will LOVE this thing.  You could guide
>>>a
>>>lost ship at sea back into port with this thing :)

>>>I've only run NR2003 so far but I've noted no smearing or streaking at

>> all.

>>>Colors are very bright.

>>>I'm using the DVI input (it has both, something not common on these class
>>>monitors).

>>>If you want to use the Pivot feature you'll have to spring for the Pivot

>> Pro

>>>software on your own ($40 download) as it does not come with it.

>>>So far I like it.  Not bad for $359.00 !

>>>Now, I do have one complaint.  The control buttons.  Luckily you don't

>> have

>>>to use them often because they SUCK!  I mean they REALLY suck.  They are
>>>membrane-type buttons and they are a real pain in the ass, especially
>>>because they are on the bottom lip of the monitor bezel.

>>>-Larry



>>>>On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:22:20 GMT, "Steve Smith"

>>>>>Agree w. DGF.  Maybe TE didn't properly vet the settings (rez, refresh,
>>>>>etc.)  I've used a 25ms 19" Dell for sims and FPS for a year.  Works
>>>>>gr8
>>>>>w.
>>>>>driving sims, not so gr8 w. flying sims, and a little worse w.
>>>>>quick-twitch,
>>>>>run-n-gun, shoot-em-ups like UT, Far Cry & BF1942.  But fine for
>>>>>racing.
>>>>>Yer LCD is prolly twice as nice as mine.  Check yer settings.

>>>>For those of us who are ignorant savages (like moi)-what settings?
>>>>I run the Dell FP2001 (16 ms refresh) at the native 1600 x 1200
>>>>setting, and I get some blurring in turns (as well as in UT99 when
>>>>rapidly changing my view).  With a GeForce 5700FX Ultra that I
>>>>have I don't know if it is the monitor, the video card, or something
>>>>else...

Randy Magrude

LCD dissapointing for sims

by Randy Magrude » Tue, 22 Mar 2005 02:21:13

I bought the Sceptre Naga II 19" and it has a 12ms response time and
works great so far on all the sims I've tried it on.

Randy


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