rec.autos.simulators

by **Gerald Moo** » Sat, 18 May 2002 02:33:37

This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with.
most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed
into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car
bottoms out and I loop it.

I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as
predictably as I do in 2.

Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice
about how to deal with the problem.

I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height.
Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem
with least impact to the rest of the setup.

Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold.

Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you
are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back
straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned
down low.

TIA,
Gerald

by **John Pancoas** » Sat, 18 May 2002 03:46:35

Raising the height is the "lesser of two evils", but it may slow you down
very slightly.
Personally, I'd opt for the springs.

-John

by **Steve Levet** » Sat, 18 May 2002 04:22:25

I go for the ride height as it tends to have less effect on the handling.

--

__________

Steve Levett

> Raising the height is the "lesser of two evils", but it may slow you
down
> very slightly.
> Personally, I'd opt for the springs.

> -John

> > This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with.
> > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed
> > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car
> > bottoms out and I loop it.

> > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as
> > predictably as I do in 2.

> > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice
> > about how to deal with the problem.

> > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height.
> > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem
> > with least impact to the rest of the setup.

> > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold.

> > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you
> > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back
> > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned
> > down low.

> > TIA,
> > Gerald

by **SimRace** » Sat, 18 May 2002 04:47:44

I'd raise the ride height as it will affect less other things. I would,
however, do it by lowering the ride height at the opposite corner. I'd at
least try that first, if that doesn't work, I'd reset and then raise the
ride height at the affected corner (likely the RF on a D-oval like Lowe's).

I was having a problem bottoming out anywhere 'outside' the groove at
Chicagoland in a league race last week using Bob Stanley's setup there and a
good buddy of mine, Ed White (runs RASCAR with you guys) told me to lower
the LR ride height to pickup the RF a little and it solved the problem. I
could run in low if needed and never bottomed out again.

HTH

by **Pete** » Sat, 18 May 2002 13:57:40

The best way to fix the problem is to raise the car. After finding a
weird bug with
the car height I did some experimenting. Against all logic raising the car
at the super
speedways will make it go faster. Thinking it was because maybe I was
scraping the
car and slowing it down I kept raising it and it kept going slightly faster.
Its possible
Papy was considering spring bind into the formula but somehow I don't think
so.
If you are practising by yourself the car will work fine but get into a
3 or 4 car
draft and the extra speed will increase the downforce and will bottom the
car out
if your springs are too low.
I will give you another bug the toe-in isn't modelled correctly in the
game. Experiment
with incorrect values and you may find some interesting speed increases. :-)
Of course the two items above need to have the setups re-adjusted to
take advantage
of them. If you raise the height of the car it will tighten up the setup and
accentuate body
roll and weight transfer. The shocks usually have to be changed to get the
most out of
the increased weight transfer. The braking will also change and may require
braking sooner
that you normally would. But it will increase the amount of work the chassis
is doing and
should result in faster exit speeds on the corners.
Hope it helps.

Pete

by **Don Wilsh** » Sat, 18 May 2002 23:31:49

Oh ***pete... explaining just another bug will take another advantage
away from the IN CROWD...

lol

Expect the rath of Burnette as he will start losing his advantages...

don wilshe

by **Kevin Kin** » Sun, 19 May 2002 01:27:54

Stiffen the springs, best-safest way to fix that. Then find other ways to
get it to turn. What are you running 70 clear? My best is 29.870.

by **Kevin Kin** » Sun, 19 May 2002 01:34:32

Stiffen the springs, best-safest way to fix that. Then find other ways to
get it to turn. What are you running 70 clear? My best is 29.870.

by **Bill Bollinge** » Sun, 19 May 2002 06:22:07

Raising the fronts of the car is what is making it faster. Similar to how
the real guys qualify at Tona or Dega. I am ASSUMING it is somehow modeling
that the spoiler is getting out of the wind. Totally screwed up IMHO, but
those bugs you mention only the tip of an iceberg there are a few other
major ones as well. But, hey.... The "in" crowd likes to be artificially
competitive LOL.

Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard
www.iracingfx.com

> The best way to fix the problem is to raise the car. After finding a
> weird bug with
> the car height I did some experimenting. Against all logic raising the
car
> at the super
> speedways will make it go faster. Thinking it was because maybe I was
> scraping the
> car and slowing it down I kept raising it and it kept going slightly
faster.
> Its possible
> Papy was considering spring bind into the formula but somehow I don't
think
> so.
> If you are practising by yourself the car will work fine but get into
a
> 3 or 4 car
> draft and the extra speed will increase the downforce and will bottom the
> car out
> if your springs are too low.
> I will give you another bug the toe-in isn't modelled correctly in the
> game. Experiment
> with incorrect values and you may find some interesting speed increases.
:-)
> Of course the two items above need to have the setups re-adjusted to
> take advantage
> of them. If you raise the height of the car it will tighten up the setup
and
> accentuate body
> roll and weight transfer. The shocks usually have to be changed to get the
> most out of
> the increased weight transfer. The braking will also change and may
require
> braking sooner
> that you normally would. But it will increase the amount of work the
chassis
> is doing and
> should result in faster exit speeds on the corners.
> Hope it helps.

> Pete

> > This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with.
> > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed
> > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car
> > bottoms out and I loop it.

> > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as
> > predictably as I do in 2.

> > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice
> > about how to deal with the problem.

> > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height.
> > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem
> > with least impact to the rest of the setup.

> > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold.

> > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you
> > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back
> > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned
> > down low.

> > TIA,
> > Gerald

by **Don Burnett** » Sun, 19 May 2002 08:51:27

> > The best way to fix the problem is to raise the car. After finding a
> > weird bug with
> > the car height I did some experimenting. Against all logic raising the
> car
> > at the super
> > speedways will make it go faster.

> Oh ***pete... explaining just another bug will take another advantage
> away from the IN CROWD...

> lol

> Expect the rath of Burnette as he will start losing his advantages...

> don wilshe

I showed no wrath, simply a friendly debate.
I really am very easy to get along with...

Don Burnette

by **Scott B. Huste** » Tue, 21 May 2002 08:05:09

Troublemaker. ;)

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450
http://www.Husted.cc

> Raising the fronts of the car is what is making it faster. Similar to how
> the real guys qualify at Tona or Dega. I am ASSUMING it is somehow
modeling
> that the spoiler is getting out of the wind. Totally screwed up IMHO, but
> those bugs you mention only the tip of an iceberg there are a few other
> major ones as well. But, hey.... The "in" crowd likes to be artificially
> competitive LOL.

> Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard
> www.iracingfx.com

> > The best way to fix the problem is to raise the car. After finding a
> > weird bug with
> > the car height I did some experimenting. Against all logic raising the
> car
> > at the super
> > speedways will make it go faster. Thinking it was because maybe I was
> > scraping the
> > car and slowing it down I kept raising it and it kept going slightly
> faster.
> > Its possible
> > Papy was considering spring bind into the formula but somehow I don't
> think
> > so.
> > If you are practising by yourself the car will work fine but get
into
> a
> > 3 or 4 car
> > draft and the extra speed will increase the downforce and will bottom
the
> > car out
> > if your springs are too low.
> > I will give you another bug the toe-in isn't modelled correctly in
the
> > game. Experiment
> > with incorrect values and you may find some interesting speed increases.
> :-)
> > Of course the two items above need to have the setups re-adjusted to
> > take advantage
> > of them. If you raise the height of the car it will tighten up the setup
> and
> > accentuate body
> > roll and weight transfer. The shocks usually have to be changed to get
the
> > most out of
> > the increased weight transfer. The braking will also change and may
> require
> > braking sooner
> > that you normally would. But it will increase the amount of work the
> chassis
> > is doing and
> > should result in faster exit speeds on the corners.
> > Hope it helps.

> > Pete

> > > This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with.
> > > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed
> > > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car
> > > bottoms out and I loop it.

> > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as
> > > predictably as I do in 2.

> > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice
> > > about how to deal with the problem.

> > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height.
> > > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem
> > > with least impact to the rest of the setup.

> > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold.

> > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you
> > > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back
> > > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned
> > > down low.

> > > TIA,
> > > Gerald

by **Scott B. Huste** » Tue, 21 May 2002 08:05:42

pfft.... :P

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450
http://www.Husted.cc

by **Gerald Moo** » Tue, 21 May 2002 23:15:43

Thanks for all the information guys. Some of it was very. . .
interesting. Raise ride height at supers, eh? No wonder I am so
damned slow at Tally now!

Now if I just had time to do some driving :(

Anybody have any advice for figuring out where the car is bottoming
out, ie raising which corner might be the best place to start?
Strangely, it seems to be coming from the driver's side, but I can't
tell which end. Maybe I am getting on the apron after all. Sure
don't feel or see any transition though, it just scrapes and I am
around.

Thanks,
Gerald

> Stiffen the springs, best-safest way to fix that. Then find other ways to
> get it to turn. What are you running 70 clear? My best is 29.870.

> > This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with.
> > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed
> > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car
> > bottoms out and I loop it.

> > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as
> > predictably as I do in 2.

> > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice
> > about how to deal with the problem.

> > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height.
> > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem
> > with least impact to the rest of the setup.

> > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold.

> > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you
> > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back
> > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned
> > down low.

> > TIA,
> > Gerald

by **Bill Bollinge** » Wed, 22 May 2002 04:51:02

If you are bottoming out, 95% of the time it is with the RF. Lowering LR
Ride Height will increase the RF, which is why it worked for that one guy.
You could stiffen the shocks, increase the front sway or increase the rear
sway, and etc... Tons of different things will work. The easiest is just
adjust the ride height. My goal when making setups is to get the car as
close the track as possible and have it consistent thoughout the corner.
Bottoming out for me, is normally the last problem I get fixed.

Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard
www.iracingfx.com

> Thanks for all the information guys. Some of it was very. . .
> interesting. Raise ride height at supers, eh? No wonder I am so
> damned slow at Tally now!

> Now if I just had time to do some driving :(

> Anybody have any advice for figuring out where the car is bottoming
> out, ie raising which corner might be the best place to start?
> Strangely, it seems to be coming from the driver's side, but I can't
> tell which end. Maybe I am getting on the apron after all. Sure
> don't feel or see any transition though, it just scrapes and I am
> around.

> Thanks,
> Gerald

- Show quoted text -

> > Stiffen the springs, best-safest way to fix that. Then find other ways
to
> > get it to turn. What are you running 70 clear? My best is 29.870.

> > > This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with.
> > > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed
> > > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car
> > > bottoms out and I loop it.

> > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as
> > > predictably as I do in 2.

> > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice
> > > about how to deal with the problem.

> > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height.
> > > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem
> > > with least impact to the rest of the setup.

> > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold.

> > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you
> > > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back
> > > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned
> > > down low.

> > > TIA,
> > > Gerald

by **The Other Larr** » Thu, 23 May 2002 13:29:54

Crank up the sway-bar a bit. It might be enough.

That bump coming out of turn 2 is a ***. I can set up a nice car at
Lowe's, but that damned bump keeps tossing the rear out on me.

-Larry

rec.autos.simulators

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2