rec.autos.simulators

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

geps

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by geps » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

sorry for my english, but i hope you will understand what i'm going to
tell you. I think it's very important.
I loved very much GP2 in 1996, but I stopped playing when I realised
that cheating was possible because of slow-motion problem.

the same slow-motion problem is still present in GP3, so hotlaps will
not be true.

try this experiment:

(my system is a PIII 550, 128 mb ram, voodoo5 5500, sb live! basic)

set graphics at maximum manually until you reach 150% of CPU occupancy
(in the game press key O to check it): for me is resolution 1280,
FSAA4x and frame rate bar at maximum (25.6 fps), all details on.
if you are not able to reach that amount of processor occupancy try
software rendering, but you have to reach solid 150%/200% processor
occupancy.
then start a hotlap at monza, you will notice that graphics runs
smootly, but very slow. don't care about that and do you hotlap. GP3
said to me I did a 1m32sxxx while driving with one hand only. very
very easy. the problem is that in real life the lap time  was about
2m27sxxx

now set graphics  in order to obtain about 60% of CPU occupancy: for
me was a 640x480 resolution all details on, and try to do the same
hotlap.
you will notice that now graphis runs as fluently as before, but the
simulation is very fast, as it should be. now it's normal. I tried a
hotlap, and GP3 said me it was a 1m37sxxx. my real life stopwatch said
me 1m37sxxx

it's obvious that hotlapping in slow-motions conditions is much
easier, so hotlaps with GP3 will be not reliable.

the main problem is that GP3 is exactly GP2 code + D3D support.
exactly the same game.
geps.

Driving
per gli appassionati di Grand Prix Legends
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Jo Helse

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by Jo Helse » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

If this is also true for the final version, then it is indeed quite sad, sad,sad
... Well, at least it DOES perform well on mediocre systems now, so you will
only have slowmo on purpose.. I hope we have a GP3LAP soon, then.

JoH

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------

Greg Cisk

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by Greg Cisk » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Well that about does it. Thanks much...

And you english was just fine!!!

--



Greg Cisk

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by Greg Cisk » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00


sad,sad

Well this has been the core of Geoff Crammonds software engine. It
has been in *EVERY* version of his GP titles. Along with no sound
from other AI cars and total shit online play. This seems like all he
understands and can't do it any other way.

--


David Butte

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by David Butte » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00


<snip>

Well, if that's true, it really is unforgiveable. If Crammond and co
can't solve a problem as basic as that in four years, what have they
been *doing* all this time?

Still, one bright note out of all this. Maybe Schubi will be back to
GPL sooner than we thought...

--
David. (GPLRank handicap: -1.01)
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

Aubre

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by Aubre » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

There was a utility for GP2 that could detect slo-mo in replays.  So it
wasn't a problem there.  I'll just hope the file formats are still pretty
close to GP2's so they can make that util work for GP3 soon.

I can't believe so many people think this problem makes Crammond's games
unplayable.  It's really not an issue at all as far as I'm concerned.  With
GP2, you just keep the occupancy below 100% and take the proper anti-cheat
precautions with your hotlap league, and you'll be fine.  Hopefully it will
be the same for GP3.

A


Don Burnett

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by Don Burnett » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I can't believe they would release GP3 with no ai sound, I thought it was
pretty lame in GP2 as it was.
Pretty sad.

--
Don Burnette
Dburn in N3 and Legends
ICQ# 74084566




> > If this is also true for the final version, then it is indeed quite sad,
> sad,sad

> Well this has been the core of Geoff Crammonds software engine. It
> has been in *EVERY* version of his GP titles. Along with no sound
> from other AI cars and total shit online play. This seems like all he
> understands and can't do it any other way.

> --


> > ... Well, at least it DOES perform well on mediocre systems now, so you
> will
> > only have slowmo on purpose.. I hope we have a GP3LAP soon, then.

> > JoH

> > ------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
> > --------------------------------------------------------------

Jo Helse

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by Jo Helse » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00



>>the same slow-motion problem is still present in GP3, so hotlaps
>>will not be true.
><snip>

>Well, if that's true, it really is unforgiveable. If Crammond and co
>can't solve a problem as basic as that in four years, what have they
>been *doing* all this time?

Of course, you first have to recognise it as a *problem*. Since GP3 seems to run
well enough on average systems to evade this effect, it only really is a serious
problem for hotlap competitions where people could *deliberately* force it. A
slight improvement over GP2, in other words  :-)

JoH

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------

Greg Cisk

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by Greg Cisk » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00


The problem is that I do not believe crammond sees this as
a problem. It appears to be the essence of what and how he
is capable of building a F1 racing simulator. He apparently
cannot do it any other way. This makes 3 straight F1 games
he has programmed like this. I was willing to overlook the
first two as I assumed they did not realize the downfall of
programming the game like that.

But now there is no excuse.

--


David Butte

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by David Butte » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00


<snip>
<snip>

Um. Schubi might be back to GPL pretty damn soon...

--
David. (GPLRank handicap: -1.01)
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really."
(Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

Tel

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by Tel » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00



...and in what way exactly does this hinder you to enjoy playing the
game? I mean, I would not intentionally run at a slow framerate and it
was futile to do so in GP2 too - due to adequate detection utilities...

--Tel

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

MichaelJ

GP3 has the same slowmotion problem as GP2. hotlapping will be no possible.

by MichaelJ » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I'd really hoped Geoff Crammond would have re-coded this. The problem is
that he, uniquely in the whole world of real-time simulation programmers,
really believes this is the best way to program a simulation!

The only saving factor is that you can make sure you don't run over 100%.

- Michael


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