rec.autos.simulators

by **Isotrip** » Wed, 03 Jul 2002 02:00:02

Actually I would have to agree with this completely after reading these two
statements:

"#83 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" by diving below car #83,
despite the fact that 83 had started his move to the apex of the turn.
That early in the race, the pass was ill-advised and over-aggressive.
The 17 car was a victim of the crash through no fauilt of his own.
Fault goes to #1 for overly agressive driving"

And then this one:

"43 had been following 7 for about 20 laps, both cars successfully
passing other cars for position. 43 overtook 7 at a higher rate of
speed than anticipated and tapped 7 in the turn, sending 7 into the
wall. No other cars involved. Fault goes to #43 (OOTRD)"

Both could be construed as either the first scenerio which was described as
a "Stupid passing move" or as the second one, which was described as a "tap"
at a "rate of speed that was higher than anticipated". John if you want to
be critical of others you should be just as critical of yourself, and that
was not how I had read it.

Just FYI

Now as for someone holding a "grudge" from race to race as it sounds like
someone else had done and let it get the better of them, John is right, in
his own way in saying leave the emotions off of the track. Although without
emotion we would not be human. I say by all means race with emotion, but try
to keep some of the more disruptible ones in check.

- Isotrip?

by **John Simmon** » Wed, 03 Jul 2002 19:49:18

says...

And you HONESTLY didn't think it was an overly aggressive act,
irredargdless of the stage of the race we were at?

Did you HONESTLY think I was trying to pass him?

Did you even watch the replay before commenting? It doesn't sound like
it.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **Isotrip** » Wed, 03 Jul 2002 23:34:37

> And you HONESTLY didn't think it was an overly aggressive act,
> irredargdless of the stage of the race we were at?

No what _I_ was referring to John, is that while his move may have been
stupid, so was yours for not being completely aware of your surroundings on
the track, IE: BOTH were stupid moves IMO.

I honestly could care LESS if you were trying to pass him or not that was
not my point. You ADMITTED you came up on him at a speed higher than
"anticipated" and then "Tapped" him, Maybe next time you will pay more
attention to your surroundings on the track. Plain and simple.

Like I said before, if you want to be critical of others you should be JUST
as critical of YOURSELF!

- Isotrip?

by **BowtNetterToD** » Thu, 04 Jul 2002 06:52:40

That would be because i braked in good time to safely make the turn and give
you plenty of room at the apex, i left more than enough room for us to take
the bend side-by-side, you didnt get anywhere near the apex though prob
because you went in too hot. You hit my rear and spun me 180degs to face any
oncomming traffic.

"easy"...you could call it that, i would rather say parked in the
kittylitter.

Agreed

Please check your replay of Ponocio again at Lap10 and refresh your memory a
little.

Indy is too far back, Pocono is as far back as we need to go.

I dont really need to go back to earlier replays, i'm sure you are a recent
problem for me.

I also stand by my claim, and could elaborate as to what i thinking at the
time,but i wont change my story as the truth is always easier to remember.
You dont have to believe a word i say and you clearly dont, but i do wonder
what you think i was doing or what i was going to do ???

My actions prove nothing except that i took advantage of the oportunitys
presented to me at the restart, i wasnt the only person there who exhibited
a desire to improve thier postion ( common sense would suggest the only
driver satisfied with his position would have been the leader ) its worth
mentioning that neither of the other two drivers hold me responsible, (
though my unreserved appologies to both of them still stands ).

Now i get it, you just plain dont like me, and this dislike must have been
festering within you for some time now, though i dont see this as
justification for your unfairness to me both on and off the track lately. I
dont see that changing my ID from race to race should present any problems
( certainly nothing for you to get upset about ), i race in rascar under the
same #7 every time and i use the same .cup.car file that is registered and
on both your website and the Rascar forum at RaceSimCentral , i have done
nothing in rascar that i feel i should be ashamed of and have been prepared
to say sorry for my involvement in any incidents, whichever name i have
raced under i have shown due respect to my fellow members both on the track
and in chat.
Looking at the bigger picture here I guess i should expect in the future
that i am used as your star witness in some push for a single ID,
invitelist, banlist etc etc and that at the moment you are just laying the
foundations, a long shot maybe but anticipation is a drivers skill.

I dont think i am the one being infantile here, i cant use my real name due
to reasons of national security and having signed the official secrets
act....i could tell you, but then i would have to llik you.

Fine, i choose to race under the name*** Trickle.

Clearly, though i fear you have sunk alot lower than simply not amused. The
names i use are for my amu***t only, should anyone else should find them
amusing that would be a bonus, god forbid that anyone might even find some
of them funny eh John.

Cheers Ginger

by **BowtNetterToD** » Thu, 04 Jul 2002 07:47:54

> It was constructive with no emotion injected in it at all. I thought I
> was pretty close to the mark myself, and nobody has pointed out any real
> errors in my original statement yet, short of the outright lies spewed
> by Ginger about my propensity for punting him which I think I disproved
> rather handily.

Just hold on a minute there matey...I still feel that your statements about
some of the facts are misleading and unfair, not to mention very
conservative where your mistakes are concerned, i now also think that your
views are tainted by some longstanding dislike of me. I also said that you
had punted me in the rear during my last three rascar races and i maintain
that claim, take a look for yourself specificaly at.....

Most recent at the top.
Las Vegas- Lap32 punted up rear by John
Sears Point- Lap18 punted up rear by John
Michigan- i didnt race
Pocono- Lap10 punted up the rear by John

I have never been accused of spewing outright lies online before now by
anyone and i hope the above Proves that in the last three rascar races that
we have competed in you did indeed punt me up the rear as i stated. The more
i read from you the more i am deeply offended. Its not difficult to
understand why i am begining to think that you may be intentionaly wrecking
me as punting me is becoming a bit of a habit for you. Far be it for me to
say, but could you keep your dislike for me OFF THE TRACK (and out of the
newsgroup)

Cheers Ginger

by **Eldre** » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 02:18:18

>Looking at the bigger picture here I guess i should expect in the future
>that i am used as your star witness in some push for a single ID,
>invitelist, banlist etc etc and that at the moment you are just laying the
>foundations, a long shot maybe but anticipation is a drivers skill.

The invite list was suggested to me LONG ago, by a totally different driver,
for a totally different reason. John was not the first, and that suggestion
had NOTHING to do with your racing ID. Having said that, I'm not entirely
happy about your choices of ID either. I'm far from prudish, but the names
you've been using strike ME as childish, and there may be others who feel the
same way. I don't have *any* problem racing with you(I've run with you before
in GPL). I know you're a good driver, and I also consider you a fair one. I
have not review any of the incidents between you and John, so I can't comment
on those.

That wouldn't bother me a bit.

Then I'm making a formal request for you to use a more 'normal' handle. I feel
I have that right as race host...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI
1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS,
VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact Officer
Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **David G Fishe** » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 04:36:34

> >Clearly, though i fear you have sunk alot lower than simply not amused.
The
> >names i use are for my amu***t only, should anyone else should find
them
> >amusing that would be a bonus, god forbid that anyone might even find
some
> >of them funny eh John.

> Then I'm making a formal request for you to use a more 'normal' handle. I
feel
> I have that right as race host...

Who cares what name he uses? I only know Ginger as a cartoon car on a
computer screen, but he's probably my favorite RASCAR driver because he's
clean and fast and seems like a funny, nice guy in chat.

As for the incidents in the last race, they were ALL minor IMO. John did go
overboard in his criticism of others, and did minimize his own incidents.
Still, it's JUST sim racing so I don't see why these guys can't bicker and
then keep on racing together.

Let's keep things in perspective.

David G Fisher

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 11:35:15

"David G Fisher" <
Our TPTCC league just went through the same thing, asking drivers to
use thier real names. So I said, ok, sorry about the confusion and signed
it...
Al Einstein.
I 'used' to have several online names. I 'used' to race annonymously.
But I found I had quite alot of trouble assoiciating our league messages

Unfortunately, when I stink up the race, which happens fairly often, folks
know who the slug was.
dave henrie

by **Mitch Alatorr** » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 02:20:14

Grub,

I was nearly completely under you (my front bumper to your front wheel
wells). If you have the spotter turned off then it's still partially your
fault. Situational awareness is your responsibility as a driver. I was all
the way down on the bottom of the track (still going down at contact). If
your spotter is off how is that my fault? Look left using a left view key
then. Bottom line is you weren't going to let me by without making me take
a risky manouvre. After I take one I get called stupid numerous times. BTW
I did apologize during the race to try and diffuse any situations as we now
have.

Hotshoe...Me....LOL

Mitch

> All,
> Well, guess I need to comment. Wasn't going to but here it is. Part of the
> fun of racing online is the discussions afterward. So, here it
goes....When
> I drive Vegas, I do not use the breaks. I slow down. This drive style put
me
> in the top 5 for practice speeds, 3rd for qualifiing, and 2nd or 1st for
the
> warmup laps. Also, this method prolongs the tires for longer runs and
keeps
> the speeds consistent. The drawback is of course the hotfoots (number 1)
who
> want to win in the first several laps. As for the number 1 car, my spotter
> was silent. Anybody can run there nose underneath someone. The real skill
is
> making the pass clean. I am just sorry that the others were taken out
> because I couldnt get my blasted car stopped. The worst part is that I
> managed to get tangled up with the 17 car twice and wondered how that
could
> have happend. The first time I couldnt stopped and got in his way, and the
> second time I initally thought it was another love tap. Now I know what
> really happened and everything is fine. The important thing to remember is
> that racing is a lot of fun and each of these tracks have their own
> personallity and your driving style will change accordingly. I used to
hate
> Sears Point, but after last week, I know appreciate it even thought I
never
> mastered it. I was really feeling good bout Vegas though.
> Grub

> > > The 'tude actually came from trying (un-successfully) to find your
email
> > > addy so I could send you my replay and thoughts. If ya gonna spew
> publicly
> > > then give up the addy!! I followed the links to your site and end up
> at a
> > > "read the readme" dead end.. Hence the 'tude...dude.... <g> What fn
> > > "Contents" frame???? heh..

> > Gotta update my sig - it's actually the 3rd URL at this time, but I'll
> > re-arrange them.

> > > My thoughts, replay available.

> > > A. He was warping. I don't wanna be near warping cars and will make
> bad
> > > choices trying to get away.

> > I watched both my replay and the server replay, and he wasn't warping at
> > all. But as weall know quite well, each replay will show something a
> > little different.

> > > B. His line was whacked entering T1 all previous laps letting me get
a
> run
> > > down the backstretch..

> > According to the two replays I watched, sometimes he missed his lift
> > point, sometimes he didn't.

> > > C. I had a run and pulled low all the way down back straight trying
to
> make
> > > my intentions known.

> > The two replays I watched showed him coming down as you came up on the
> > inside of him. The prudent move on your part would have been backing off
> > and trying again at the next turn. I wonder how he had his spotter
> > settings. Mine are up all the way to maximum annoyance (voice mode),
> > but it's worth it.

> > > D. He braked early/high entering T3 letting me get completely along
> side
> > > his car low inside lane, near line.

> > I'd like to see his replay from that section. Your speeds weren't all
> > that different.

> > > E. He knew I was there and continued down into me as we are side by
> side.
> > > Yeah I created the situation but he contributed a fair share to the
> final
> > > result. You make it sound much worse. TWICE!!!!!

> > I think I mentioned that he had apparently ignored his spotter. In the
> > end, it was your call to make as you were the fastest car at that point.

> > > Yeah I shoulda waited a few laps, but to put 100% blame on me or call
> it
> > > "stupid" isn't fair either.

> > In my previous message, I did state that we're all guilty of stupid
> > passing moves. Shit happens and sometimes one of us is the one serving
> > it up in heaping plate-fulls. I'm sure that if I go back and look at
> > some of the past RAS replays, I could find at least one stupid passing
> > move that I'm guilty of.

> > > If the situation was reversed I would have
> > > stayed in my lane in the high groove and we have no wreck.

> > Again, it depends on how he had his spotter configured. What are you
> > using for a spotter setting? Is it voice or text? Text spotters can
> > get lost in the race chatter, so I wouldn't recommend that mode of
> > operation.

> > > Mitch

> > --
> > =========================================================
> > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> > RASCAR Roster
> > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> > http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> > =========================================================

by **grubba** » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 08:29:32

No hard feelings here. My spotter was on, he just didnt say anything about
you being at my rear wheel. We just had two different driving styles that
all. Its my fault for overdriving the previous lap, and thus allowing you to
move up. Thats racing. If you were at my front wheel well, believe me, I
wouldnt have cut down. Never saw you . Never thought that you would stick
your nose underneath like that. But hey, lets forget that race and look
forward to Daytona. Its going to be great racing. Good luck on Saturday.
grub

> Grub,

> I was nearly completely under you (my front bumper to your front wheel
> wells). If you have the spotter turned off then it's still partially your
> fault. Situational awareness is your responsibility as a driver. I was
all
> the way down on the bottom of the track (still going down at contact). If
> your spotter is off how is that my fault? Look left using a left view key
> then. Bottom line is you weren't going to let me by without making me
take
> a risky manouvre. After I take one I get called stupid numerous times.
BTW
> I did apologize during the race to try and diffuse any situations as we
now
> have.

> Hotshoe...Me....LOL

> Mitch

> > All,
> > Well, guess I need to comment. Wasn't going to but here it is. Part of
the
> > fun of racing online is the discussions afterward. So, here it
> goes....When
> > I drive Vegas, I do not use the breaks. I slow down. This drive style
put
> me
> > in the top 5 for practice speeds, 3rd for qualifiing, and 2nd or 1st for
> the
> > warmup laps. Also, this method prolongs the tires for longer runs and
> keeps
> > the speeds consistent. The drawback is of course the hotfoots (number 1)
> who
> > want to win in the first several laps. As for the number 1 car, my
spotter
> > was silent. Anybody can run there nose underneath someone. The real
skill
> is
> > making the pass clean. I am just sorry that the others were taken out
> > because I couldnt get my blasted car stopped. The worst part is that I
> > managed to get tangled up with the 17 car twice and wondered how that
> could
> > have happend. The first time I couldnt stopped and got in his way, and
the
> > second time I initally thought it was another love tap. Now I know what
> > really happened and everything is fine. The important thing to remember
is
> > that racing is a lot of fun and each of these tracks have their own
> > personallity and your driving style will change accordingly. I used to
> hate
> > Sears Point, but after last week, I know appreciate it even thought I
> never
> > mastered it. I was really feeling good bout Vegas though.
> > Grub

> > > > The 'tude actually came from trying (un-successfully) to find your
> email
> > > > addy so I could send you my replay and thoughts. If ya gonna spew
> > publicly
> > > > then give up the addy!! I followed the links to your site and end
up
> > at a
> > > > "read the readme" dead end.. Hence the 'tude...dude.... <g> What
fn
> > > > "Contents" frame???? heh..

> > > Gotta update my sig - it's actually the 3rd URL at this time, but I'll
> > > re-arrange them.

> > > > My thoughts, replay available.

> > > > A. He was warping. I don't wanna be near warping cars and will
make
> > bad
> > > > choices trying to get away.

> > > I watched both my replay and the server replay, and he wasn't warping
at
> > > all. But as weall know quite well, each replay will show something a
> > > little different.

> > > > B. His line was whacked entering T1 all previous laps letting me
get
> a
> > run
> > > > down the backstretch..

> > > According to the two replays I watched, sometimes he missed his lift
> > > point, sometimes he didn't.

> > > > C. I had a run and pulled low all the way down back straight trying
> to
> > make
> > > > my intentions known.

> > > The two replays I watched showed him coming down as you came up on the
> > > inside of him. The prudent move on your part would have been backing
off
> > > and trying again at the next turn. I wonder how he had his spotter
> > > settings. Mine are up all the way to maximum annoyance (voice mode),
> > > but it's worth it.

> > > > D. He braked early/high entering T3 letting me get completely along
> > side
> > > > his car low inside lane, near line.

> > > I'd like to see his replay from that section. Your speeds weren't all
> > > that different.

> > > > E. He knew I was there and continued down into me as we are side by
> > side.
> > > > Yeah I created the situation but he contributed a fair share to the
> > final
> > > > result. You make it sound much worse. TWICE!!!!!

> > > I think I mentioned that he had apparently ignored his spotter. In
the
> > > end, it was your call to make as you were the fastest car at that
point.

> > > > Yeah I shoulda waited a few laps, but to put 100% blame on me or
call
> > it
> > > > "stupid" isn't fair either.

> > > In my previous message, I did state that we're all guilty of stupid
> > > passing moves. Shit happens and sometimes one of us is the one
serving
> > > it up in heaping plate-fulls. I'm sure that if I go back and look at
> > > some of the past RAS replays, I could find at least one stupid passing
> > > move that I'm guilty of.

> > > > If the situation was reversed I would have
> > > > stayed in my lane in the high groove and we have no wreck.

> > > Again, it depends on how he had his spotter configured. What are you
> > > using for a spotter setting? Is it voice or text? Text spotters can
> > > get lost in the race chatter, so I wouldn't recommend that mode of
> > > operation.

> > > > Mitch

> > > --
> > > =========================================================
> > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> > > RASCAR Roster
> > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> > > =========================================================

by **Tony Rickar** » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 02:46:43

> No hard feelings here. My spotter was on, he just didnt say anything
about
> you being at my rear wheel. We just had two different driving styles
that
> all.

Now that is a great attitude. Nice one.

rec.autos.simulators

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