rec.autos.simulators

Hi,

I have raced NASCAR and Hawaii for a long time and I have recently been
reading this newsgroup for about a month.  The current thinking is that two
components make up speed in the game.  I think it is wrong.  I agree that the
setup is a big component.  I also agree, as I have gotten better and better,
that the line is critical.  However I think there is a big third component
that exist that accounts for the difference between a 194 speed at Talledga
and a 195.

The equipment someone has makes the final difference.  It has too.  I fall
into the 194 crowd.  In consistently run 194.5s or slightly better.  I follow
many of the 195 crowds for a time and then slowly loose the draft.  I follow
the same lines. I mix up setups and still come in 4th or 5th in big races
(when someone doesn't hammer me).

When I'm following some of the 195's they are all over the track.  They lose
their line get frequently and still maintain there speed.  The only thing that
can explain this is the machine and stick they are using.  As an expample, I
run faster with most of the graphics turned off.  This is obviously a memory
issure.  To deny that there is an issue here is to deny that we don't play
this great game on computers.

I can hear Eric and many others poo pooing this but it has to be true.  So to
you all 194's that are frustrated, the only solution is MONEY and more CPU
speed.  That is the final key to getting to 1st.

Comments????

Thanks..................................................................Dan

I have heard some people say that they get better speeds with higher frame rates
(ie. they are faster in VGA), but I have not personally seen a difference.

Sorry, but this is just wrong.  What explains the cars jumping around is your
latency, plus their latency, plus the server delay.  That is why you see cars
jumping around, not because someone is altering their line.  It has nothing to do
with memory or the stick.

Again this is wrong, at least partially.  More CPU power will lead to faster frame
rates which some have said will in turn lead to faster laps.  I don't really agree
with this, but some do.  Adding more memory will accomplish nothing.  All it will
do for you is allow you to save longer replay files, not adding anything to
performance.
--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (6)

I would have to agree that your hardware does have a significant
effect on your speed.  I resently upgraded from a 486-33 to a P133 and
my lap times on ICR2 drop by 2 seconds.  I figure they will probibly
drop by another second or two when I get a steering wheel later this
summer.  (well I hope it does)

Derek

________

Eldred Pickett

I am NOT paranoid.  And why are you always watching me?!?

As a member of the "195 crowd", I'd like to make a few comments.

First off, it's hard to judge the other driver's line in Hawaii, the cars
bounce around too much, especially in the big fields that race at
Talladega. This is an artifact of the modem connection, and when it gets
really bad, it's called "warping". You know the cars can't be bouncing like
they do, otherwise they'd spin in the turns.

Second, most of the fast drivers are using a wheel and pedals. MULTI no
longer penalizes drivers using analog controls for throttle and
acceleration. I have a CHH VPP yoke and CH Pro Pedals, and they work pretty
well, though I'd love to have a real wheel like a TSW or an ECC. However,
I'd be willing to bet that a number of drivers running 195's are using
joysticks, as you don't really need analog controls for Talladega. A brick
on the gas pedal works just as well. <g>

Third, on most tracks, I turn off all detail except the lane markings
(which you MUST have to race side-by-side). CPU speed and graphics speed
make a big difference. The other night, I was racing at Martinsville, and
the car felt real loose. I suddenly realized that I had objects turned on
(no detail, just objects). Turned them off, and suddenly, the car felt good
again.

Also, be aware that some of the 195's are cheating to get their qualifying
time. If you see the message, "Car #xx going backwards" during a qual
session, you can bet that the driver is trying to get a little more heat in
the tires. This is frowned upon, and won't be tolerated in league races,
but there seems to be no way to prevent it in pickup races at the moment.

I won't deny that equipment makes a difference, but I doubt it makes that
much difference at Talladega.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

As always - this is my opinion.  We all have one.   Mine is based upon an upgrade
from a 386-40 to 150mhz.   I saw an increase in my best times, but all
contributed to the smoother interaction between me and the simulation.

I'm sure everyone who upgraded for the sake of NASCAR (we all did, right guys?)
did so because it made it more realistic, and of course we would improve as a
result.  Would we have bought a faster computer if we thought we would drive
worse???

Mike.    -who really did upgrade for Nascar (and IndyCar II)

Force the setup and you will see the difference.

 Dan

 Dan

I wonder how much a good game card helps.

I did
3 times
Leave me alone

--
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Later!                               |
| Markmc #35                           |
| (Closed Beta 8/95)                   |
| http://www.katt.com/mmcars.html      |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

I agree that your computer makes a big difference on short tracks and
road courses, but the only thing that a faster computer brings you at
Talladega is the ability to draw more car ahead of you to stay out of
accidents.  I have always been amazed that people can qualify at
Talladega in the 196-197 range.  Hat's off to these guys.  I can only
manage 194.5xx.

Speed at Talladega could probably be more attributed to your controller
device than to the computer's CPU speed.  Before I got my T2, I used a
CH Products Virtual Pilot Pro.  I used the fire buttons as accelerator
and brake.  I drove 194.xxx.  Just once I tried assigning the throttle
control as my accelerator.  I only tapped the fire-button brake when I
needed to keep from running into the AI approaching the trioval.  I
improved my time by about 1mph.  I've heard that this is because of a
'bug' or 'design flaw' or 'whatever you want to call it' in the program.
Nearly all tracks were faster using the fire buttons than using a T2
w/pedals.  My setups seem to have become extremly loose when I went to
the T2.

I wouldn't trade my T2 for anything.  The realism that I've gained using
it is better than the wins I had with the fire buttons.

One day, I'll upgrade my computer so I can surround myself with
screaming fans as I go through the trioval at 195 mph.  Until then I'll
keep the textures off and hope that I don't kill someone who's sitting
in the middle of the track deadstick.

David Martin
IVL Series Director
#26 Samuel Adams Chevy
dgm26sam

It is not just tire heat that they get doing this, it is the momentium
of a restrictor plate car qualifying on it's third and fourth lap
instead of it's second and third lap.  The rest of us have to wait for
nearly the maximum qualification time for the "cheaters" to finish
their fourth and maybe fifth lap (depending on how many laps they went
backwards).

PLEASE, change the game to enforce that it is cheating, OR Lets call
it one of those NASCAR tricks.

I can support either decision, but please, let's end the grayness.
--
Best Wishes!!!
Robert Huggins
Raleigh, NC

________

Eldred Pickett

I am NOT paranoid.  And why are you always watching me?!?

Are you DHaugen on Hawaii? If so, I think we've raced a couple of times.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

There's no need for a car to go backwards on the track during a qualifying
session, there aren't any cars in the pits to worry about. The only way
this could happen under normal circumstances would be if you crashed and
needed to turn around, in which case you're probably going to be at the
back of the pack anyways. My preference would be to make the driver start
at the back of the pack if they go backwards during qualifying.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

I can't really say anythig about Hawaii, but I'm sure that machine speed and
overall framerates can and do affect lap times if the game is running in real
time. Consider,

machine A, running at 50fps
machine B running at 20fps

At a speed of 100mph the car travels approx. 44.5m every second (sorry to mix up
units here).

Now every time the game goes through a "cycle", it moves all the computer cars,
polls the user's control, applies the game mechanics to the user's car and then
renders the screen. Because of this, on machine A the user can make a correction
to the direction of the car every 0.89m, whilst on machine B the user can only
make a correction every 2.25m - that's a big difference and can really effect
your line.

I know this is definately the case in F1GP, and most probably the case in
ICR/NASCAR/ICR2/Hawaii.

Jamie