rec.autos.simulators

by **B Farme** » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:32:55

Been practicing Homestead for this weeks race & thought I'd better
do some laps in traffic at Tally, 'cause I haven't had much, if
any, time with the fixed "fast" setup there. Turned up the AI to
104% to get realistic multiplayer type speeds & away I went.

Is it just me, or is anyone else having a problem with some pretty
*** understeer at higher (190+) corner entry speeds? Seems as
though the RF is bottoming, & inducing an almost snap understeer,
then un-bottoming(?), & giving immediate, though not as harsh,
oversteer. This is much more noticeable when trying to maintain
an inside line in 3-wide racing (and the AI really likes to go in
3-wide now, post patch), although it is a problem in 2-wide as
well.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Brian

by **SimRace** » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:43:09

I have not run at Tally since the patch, BUT in a fixed setup league race
there last week (using default <fast> setup), the only time I noticed the
car wanting to get out of shape was if I was leading a pack of cars and got
pushed into a corner. At that point I tended to have a little push until the
banking starting pushing back toward the apron a little. I never shifted
more than a half lane up though. Sometimes when catching someone going into
T1 or T3 (in other words, you catch them at that point, have not drafted
into it with them) I also got about the same amount of push, I am assuming
this was a little aero push. Again, it was not enough to shift me more than
a half lane up the track though.

I haven't experienced any oversteer at all.

by **David G Fishe** » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 06:13:35

The car is definitely not as stable at Talladega as it is at Daytona.

David G Fisher

by **B Farme** » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:54:15

Thanks for the replys.

I played with it some more, lowering the AI to 100%, & while not
nearly as bad, I have to agree with David that at the same
speeds, the fast setup at Tally is not as stable as at Daytona.

SimRacer, at the worst times, I was pushing up when close behind
another car, sometimes as much as a full lane, & then the front
would bite & cause oversteer, sending me to the apron. Then it
would bottom out when coming back on the track, sparks & all,
slide back into the low lane, never losing much speed, a real
handful. I think you are right, I have just met the dreaded
"aero-push". It wasn't nearly as bad when leading the draft, &
diminished when I slowed down the AI, tho never went away.

I would suggest to those, like me, who thought that they needed
little practice in the fast setup at Tally, to possibly
reconsider.

I have :(

Brian

> > Been practicing Homestead for this weeks race & thought I'd
better
> > do some laps in traffic at Tally, 'cause I haven't had much,
if
> > any, time with the fixed "fast" setup there. Turned up the AI
to
> > 104% to get realistic multiplayer type speeds & away I went.

> > Is it just me, or is anyone else having a problem with some
pretty
> > *** understeer at higher (190+) corner entry speeds? Seems
as
> > though the RF is bottoming, & inducing an almost snap
understeer,
> > then un-bottoming(?), & giving immediate, though not as harsh,
> > oversteer. This is much more noticeable when trying to
maintain
> > an inside line in 3-wide racing (and the AI really likes to go
in
> > 3-wide now, post patch), although it is a problem in 2-wide as
> > well.

> > Any thoughts or suggestions?

> > Brian

> I have not run at Tally since the patch, BUT in a fixed setup
league race
> there last week (using default <fast> setup), the only time I
noticed the
> car wanting to get out of shape was if I was leading a pack of
cars and got
> pushed into a corner. At that point I tended to have a little
push until the
> banking starting pushing back toward the apron a little. I never
shifted
> more than a half lane up though. Sometimes when catching someone
going into
> T1 or T3 (in other words, you catch them at that point, have not
drafted
> into it with them) I also got about the same amount of push, I
am assuming
> this was a little aero push. Again, it was not enough to shift
me more than
> a half lane up the track though.

> I haven't experienced any oversteer at all.

by **David G Fishe** » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:12:45

Just wnadering if you might not need to adjust your linear/non linear
setting. Sounds like what happened to me when I got the game and had too
much non linear. I run 100% linear now and at that track and Daytona it
makes a huge difference in holding your line steady.

David G Fisher

> Thanks for the replys.

> I played with it some more, lowering the AI to 100%, & while not
> nearly as bad, I have to agree with David that at the same
> speeds, the fast setup at Tally is not as stable as at Daytona.

> SimRacer, at the worst times, I was pushing up when close behind
> another car, sometimes as much as a full lane, & then the front
> would bite & cause oversteer, sending me to the apron. Then it
> would bottom out when coming back on the track, sparks & all,
> slide back into the low lane, never losing much speed, a real
> handful. I think you are right, I have just met the dreaded
> "aero-push". It wasn't nearly as bad when leading the draft, &
> diminished when I slowed down the AI, tho never went away.

> I would suggest to those, like me, who thought that they needed
> little practice in the fast setup at Tally, to possibly
> reconsider.

> I have :(

> Brian

> > > Been practicing Homestead for this weeks race & thought I'd
> better
> > > do some laps in traffic at Tally, 'cause I haven't had much,
> if
> > > any, time with the fixed "fast" setup there. Turned up the AI
> to
> > > 104% to get realistic multiplayer type speeds & away I went.

> > > Is it just me, or is anyone else having a problem with some
> pretty
> > > *** understeer at higher (190+) corner entry speeds? Seems
> as
> > > though the RF is bottoming, & inducing an almost snap
> understeer,
> > > then un-bottoming(?), & giving immediate, though not as harsh,
> > > oversteer. This is much more noticeable when trying to
> maintain
> > > an inside line in 3-wide racing (and the AI really likes to go
> in
> > > 3-wide now, post patch), although it is a problem in 2-wide as
> > > well.

> > > Any thoughts or suggestions?

> > > Brian

> > I have not run at Tally since the patch, BUT in a fixed setup
> league race
> > there last week (using default <fast> setup), the only time I
> noticed the
> > car wanting to get out of shape was if I was leading a pack of
> cars and got
> > pushed into a corner. At that point I tended to have a little
> push until the
> > banking starting pushing back toward the apron a little. I never
> shifted
> > more than a half lane up though. Sometimes when catching someone
> going into
> > T1 or T3 (in other words, you catch them at that point, have not
> drafted
> > into it with them) I also got about the same amount of push, I
> am assuming
> > this was a little aero push. Again, it was not enough to shift
> me more than
> > a half lane up the track though.

> > I haven't experienced any oversteer at all.

by **B Farme** » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:29:48

I thought of the linear setting, but went the other way, ie from
~90-95 to 75.
I'll try 100% and see what happens...

Thanks,
Brian

<snip>

by **Tom Pabs** » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 16:21:50

But neither is the banking, or the "grip" at both tracks...and probably not
the weather either!

Some other "thoughts" on the topic........

1. Your entry into the turn is different depending on the situation
(leading draft, following draft, two-wide bottom while following, two-wide
bottom while leading ....etc.). You need to learn the proper adjustment to
your entry line...for your car's setup...for each situation. Tire wear and
fuel load also play an important role in your turn entry technique...and you
must "adjust" over the course of a fuel run/tire run......accordingly.

2. I believe "wheel lock" has more to do with stability at the SS tracks
than the steering linearity. But, that could be unique to my
controller....so I won't swear by it.

3. Don't forget that speed....as wheel as steering input....affect your
line through the turns. You should be able to compensate with either the
wheel or the throttle....and be effective at maintaining stability with both
tools.

4. If you drop a wheel onto the flat-yellow in the turns at either
track....you need to learn better car control....no matter what linearity or
setup or wheel-lock you run. Its called "anticipation" and driving ahead of
your car....not behind or following it.

5. I have always wondered why the rookies think Daytona or Tally is an
easier track to learn....why racing online at those tracks is so popular. I
have always considered them the most difficult of all the SS tracks.
There's light-years more room for entry and line error at Michigan (for
example) than at either Daytona or Talladega.

Here are some questions (not "trick" questions) proposed for open
discussion:

A) You are the second car in a two-car draft. You and your partner are
running solo...attempting to catch a pack in front of you. Should you:
1. Turn in a tick earlier than the lead car?
2. Turn in at the exact same time as the lead car?
3. Turn in a tick later than the lead car?
..........and why?

B) You are the lead car in a two-car draft moving up the inside of a
scattered line of cars on the back straight at Talladega. Why is it
necessary to closely observe your mirrors during the last 200 feet before
the entry into Turn-3?

C) How much "lane drift" is acceptable running through the turns at
Talladega or Daytona?
1. A half-lane up....and zero-lane down?
2. Zero-lane up....zero-lane down?
3. A half-lane in both directions?
........and why?

D) The best method for adjusting your speed to stay tucked in behind the
lead draft car is:
1. With your steering wheel?
2. With your brake?
3. With your throttle?
........and why?

E) You are exiting Turn-2 at Talladega as the second car in a two-car draft
and you want to stay in line down the back straight. You should:
1. Head for the wall before the lead car does?
2. Stay right behind the lead car as you exit the turn....no matter
what he does?
3. Stay just to the inside of the lead car.....no matter what he
does?
.......and why?

F) You are the lead car in a three-car draft and you want to avoid being
passed by the second car. You should:
1. Peddle the throttle?
2. Block?
3. There's nothing you can do about it?
........and why?

Okay....that ought to get some thinking cap "juices" going!

Regards,

Tom

> The car is definitely not as stable at Talladega as it is at Daytona.

> David G Fisher

> > Been practicing Homestead for this weeks race & thought I'd better
> > do some laps in traffic at Tally, 'cause I haven't had much, if
> > any, time with the fixed "fast" setup there. Turned up the AI to
> > 104% to get realistic multiplayer type speeds & away I went.

> > Is it just me, or is anyone else having a problem with some pretty
> > *** understeer at higher (190+) corner entry speeds? Seems as
> > though the RF is bottoming, & inducing an almost snap understeer,
> > then un-bottoming(?), & giving immediate, though not as harsh,
> > oversteer. This is much more noticeable when trying to maintain
> > an inside line in 3-wide racing (and the AI really likes to go in
> > 3-wide now, post patch), although it is a problem in 2-wide as
> > well.

> > Any thoughts or suggestions?

> > Brian

by **David G Fishe** » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:29:42

> > > Been practicing Homestead for this weeks race & thought I'd better
> > > do some laps in traffic at Tally, 'cause I haven't had much, if
> > > any, time with the fixed "fast" setup there. Turned up the AI to
> > > 104% to get realistic multiplayer type speeds & away I went.

> > > Is it just me, or is anyone else having a problem with some pretty
> > > *** understeer at higher (190+) corner entry speeds? Seems as
> > > though the RF is bottoming, & inducing an almost snap understeer,
> > > then un-bottoming(?), & giving immediate, though not as harsh,
> > > oversteer. This is much more noticeable when trying to maintain
> > > an inside line in 3-wide racing (and the AI really likes to go in
> > > 3-wide now, post patch), although it is a problem in 2-wide as
> > > well.

> > > Any thoughts or suggestions?

> > > Brian

> > The car is definitely not as stable at Talladega as it is at Daytona.

> > David G Fisher

I think they are both easy tracks actually, but still fun to race on with
good drivers. With the default Papyrus fast setup, the car at Talladega
simply feels a little less easy than at Daytona. I suggested Brian check his
linear setting because he sounds like he's having a lot more trouble than he
should as he's a good driver.

There may be more room for error, but you are penalized a lot more for a
mistake at California or Michigan. You lose a lot more time if you get off
the ideal line.

David G Fisher

by **Don Burnett** » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:32:19

> > > > Been practicing Homestead for this weeks race & thought I'd better
> > > > do some laps in traffic at Tally, 'cause I haven't had much, if
> > > > any, time with the fixed "fast" setup there. Turned up the AI to
> > > > 104% to get realistic multiplayer type speeds & away I went.

> > > > Is it just me, or is anyone else having a problem with some pretty
> > > > *** understeer at higher (190+) corner entry speeds? Seems as
> > > > though the RF is bottoming, & inducing an almost snap understeer,
> > > > then un-bottoming(?), & giving immediate, though not as harsh,
> > > > oversteer. This is much more noticeable when trying to maintain
> > > > an inside line in 3-wide racing (and the AI really likes to go in
> > > > 3-wide now, post patch), although it is a problem in 2-wide as
> > > > well.

> > > > Any thoughts or suggestions?

> > > > Brian

> > > The car is definitely not as stable at Talladega as it is at Daytona.

> > > David G Fisher

> > But neither is the banking, or the "grip" at both tracks...and probably
> not
> > the weather either!

> I think they are both easy tracks actually, but still fun to race on with
> good drivers. With the default Papyrus fast setup, the car at Talladega
> simply feels a little less easy than at Daytona. I suggested Brian check
his
> linear setting because he sounds like he's having a lot more trouble than
he
> should as he's a good driver.

> > 5. I have always wondered why the rookies think Daytona or Tally is an
> > easier track to learn....why racing online at those tracks is so
popular.
> I
> > have always considered them the most difficult of all the SS tracks.
> > There's light-years more room for entry and line error at Michigan (for
> > example) than at either Daytona or Talladega.

> There may be more room for error, but you are penalized a lot more for a
> mistake at California or Michigan. You lose a lot more time if you get off
> the ideal line.

Talladega and Daytona both are all about the draft, and being able to hold
your line. I have had some awesome racing at these tracks, especially when
you get a good group of guys together that know how to be patient and draft
together a good part of the race. Too often folks get impatient to get
around others and that is when the "big one" usually occurs. I prefer to
just tuck in behind someone and stay there for a while.
Also, I run 100% linearity on my Momo, and find the fast setup pretty good.

Don Burnette

by **John Pancoas** » Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:10:49

Good luck guys, and have FUN. It's not rocket
science.................<G>

-John

> > > > Been practicing Homestead for this weeks race & thought I'd better
> > > > do some laps in traffic at Tally, 'cause I haven't had much, if
> > > > any, time with the fixed "fast" setup there. Turned up the AI to
> > > > 104% to get realistic multiplayer type speeds & away I went.

> > > > Is it just me, or is anyone else having a problem with some pretty
> > > > *** understeer at higher (190+) corner entry speeds? Seems as
> > > > though the RF is bottoming, & inducing an almost snap understeer,
> > > > then un-bottoming(?), & giving immediate, though not as harsh,
> > > > oversteer. This is much more noticeable when trying to maintain
> > > > an inside line in 3-wide racing (and the AI really likes to go in
> > > > 3-wide now, post patch), although it is a problem in 2-wide as
> > > > well.

> > > > Any thoughts or suggestions?

> > > > Brian

> > > The car is definitely not as stable at Talladega as it is at Daytona.

> > > David G Fisher

> > But neither is the banking, or the "grip" at both tracks...and probably
> not
> > the weather either!

> I think they are both easy tracks actually, but still fun to race on with
> good drivers. With the default Papyrus fast setup, the car at Talladega
> simply feels a little less easy than at Daytona. I suggested Brian check
his
> linear setting because he sounds like he's having a lot more trouble than
he
> should as he's a good driver.

> > 5. I have always wondered why the rookies think Daytona or Tally is an
> > easier track to learn....why racing online at those tracks is so
popular.
> I
> > have always considered them the most difficult of all the SS tracks.
> > There's light-years more room for entry and line error at Michigan (for
> > example) than at either Daytona or Talladega.

> There may be more room for error, but you are penalized a lot more for a
> mistake at California or Michigan. You lose a lot more time if you get off
> the ideal line.

> David G Fisher

by **Tom Pabs** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 00:54:02

Hmmmm....?? I think I have to disagree with you on that, David. Friendly
disagreement, though.

Tom

> > > > Been practicing Homestead for this weeks race & thought I'd better
> > > > do some laps in traffic at Tally, 'cause I haven't had much, if
> > > > any, time with the fixed "fast" setup there. Turned up the AI to
> > > > 104% to get realistic multiplayer type speeds & away I went.

> > > > Is it just me, or is anyone else having a problem with some pretty
> > > > *** understeer at higher (190+) corner entry speeds? Seems as
> > > > though the RF is bottoming, & inducing an almost snap understeer,
> > > > then un-bottoming(?), & giving immediate, though not as harsh,
> > > > oversteer. This is much more noticeable when trying to maintain
> > > > an inside line in 3-wide racing (and the AI really likes to go in
> > > > 3-wide now, post patch), although it is a problem in 2-wide as
> > > > well.

> > > > Any thoughts or suggestions?

> > > > Brian

> > > The car is definitely not as stable at Talladega as it is at Daytona.

> > > David G Fisher

> > But neither is the banking, or the "grip" at both tracks...and probably
> not
> > the weather either!

> I think they are both easy tracks actually, but still fun to race on with
> good drivers. With the default Papyrus fast setup, the car at Talladega
> simply feels a little less easy than at Daytona. I suggested Brian check
his
> linear setting because he sounds like he's having a lot more trouble than
he
> should as he's a good driver.

> > 5. I have always wondered why the rookies think Daytona or Tally is an
> > easier track to learn....why racing online at those tracks is so
popular.
> I
> > have always considered them the most difficult of all the SS tracks.
> > There's light-years more room for entry and line error at Michigan (for
> > example) than at either Daytona or Talladega.

> There may be more room for error, but you are penalized a lot more for a
> mistake at California or Michigan. You lose a lot more time if you get off
> the ideal line.

> David G Fisher

by **B Farme** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:55:26

David, thanks for the advice... MUCH better w/100% linear :) .
Little twitchier(sp?) now, but better control.

Owe ya one,
Brian

> I thought of the linear setting, but went the other way, ie from
> ~90-95 to 75.
> I'll try 100% and see what happens...

> Thanks,
> Brian

> > Just wnadering if you might not need to adjust your linear/non
> linear
> > setting. Sounds like what happened to me when I got the game
and
> had too
> > much non linear. I run 100% linear now and at that track and
> Daytona it
> > makes a huge difference in holding your line steady.

> > David G Fisher

> <snip>

by **B Farme** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:07:06

<snip>

> > But neither is the banking, or the "grip" at both tracks...and
probably
> not
> > the weather either!

> I think they are both easy tracks actually, but still fun to
race on with
> good drivers. With the default Papyrus fast setup, the car at
Talladega
> simply feels a little less easy than at Daytona. I suggested
Brian check his
> linear setting because he sounds like he's having a lot more
trouble than he
> should as he's a good driver.

Blush...not the fastest by a long shot, was pretty much a middle
o' the packer on TEN(did win an OSCAR Bristol race once by saving
tires...my only claim to fame), but I try to make up for lack of
talent w/ persistence & stategy (& luck, hehe).

Again, thanks!
Brian

- Show quoted text -

by **David G Fishe** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:09:01

David G Fisher

Absolutely. Good thing you didn't see the Talladega race today. :-)
--
David G Fisher

rec.autos.simulators

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