rec.autos.simulators

What's left to sim?

Uwe Schürkam

What's left to sim?

by Uwe Schürkam » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:35:56

I've always wondered: if you adjust your seat in GTR, does it change
the center of gravity of the car / driver combination?

cheers,

uwe

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Dave Henri

What's left to sim?

by Dave Henri » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:26:09



   I think the cg is defined in their hidden .hdv files.  The point of view
is merely a convieance for a driver's paticular taste.  When I drive coupes
like those in GTR, I tend to raise the viewpoint up so I can see the top
edges of the fenders, and thus the apex of a corner.  I usually move it
back some too, as I prefer to see all of the mirrors.  In an open LeMans
prototype, I generally stick to the default setting,  being 'canyoned' down
low between the front tires, gives me great immersion.

dave henrie

JP

What's left to sim?

by JP » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:19:52


  Visual affect only would be my guess.

David G Fishe

What's left to sim?

by David G Fishe » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 06:00:10




>>   Lots of good new ideas posted by others.  Stuff that still bears to be
> improved (especially since some of it has taken steps backwards).
>   Better/more accurate track modeling, better online collision/detection
> code, better damage models, better physics, especially drafting.
>   Of these four, the latter three have decreased in quality over the
years,
> in terms of Nascar sims.

I think rFactor will improve a lot on those four. Here's a quote from today
from a from a post at RSC that I thought sounded kind of interesting
regarding aero modeling.

Another thing I just discovered is how the airflow vibration is reduced when
drafting and seems to increase above normal when I pulled out to pass the
draftee - really great effect."

Not a big deal I guess, but it's something I've never seen before.

David G Fisher

Remco Moed

What's left to sim?

by Remco Moed » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 06:03:11

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:10:48 -0000, Peter


>That watchamacallit to do with being able to emulate the bumps on the
>road.  Yeah,  I forget the name and I'm pressed for time to look it up.
><BG> Unfortunately, we'll need sims that run at 1000fps I'd guess.  :)

High frequency bumps? BTW, the fps don't matter when you're talking
physics...

Cheers!

Remco

ymenar

What's left to sim?

by ymenar » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:26:44


> High frequency bumps? BTW, the fps don't matter when you're talking
> physics...

fysics per seconds <g>

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenar

What's left to sim?

by ymenar » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:31:55




>>>   Lots of good new ideas posted by others.  Stuff that still bears to be
>> improved (especially since some of it has taken steps backwards).
>>   Better/more accurate track modeling, better online collision/detection
>> code, better damage models, better physics, especially drafting.
>>   Of these four, the latter three have decreased in quality over the
> years,
>> in terms of Nascar sims.

> I think rFactor will improve a lot on those four.

Hmmm, tracks can't be "improved" over REAL sims when they are fantasy
tracks.  They can't even match up to Motorsims' tracks back 5 years ago or
what Papy does in terms of polygonal smoothness anyway.  And considering
it's semi-serious nature (similar to LFS), the physics are bound to be
degraded.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

JP

What's left to sim?

by JP » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:59:43







> >>   Lots of good new ideas posted by others.  Stuff that still bears to
be
> > improved (especially since some of it has taken steps backwards).
> >   Better/more accurate track modeling, better online collision/detection
> > code, better damage models, better physics, especially drafting.
> >   Of these four, the latter three have decreased in quality over the
> years,
> > in terms of Nascar sims.

> I think rFactor will improve a lot on those four. Here's a quote from
today
> from a from a post at RSC that I thought sounded kind of interesting
> regarding aero modeling.

> Another thing I just discovered is how the airflow vibration is reduced
when
> drafting and seems to increase above normal when I pulled out to pass the
> draftee - really great effect."

> Not a big deal I guess, but it's something I've never seen before.

> David G Fisher

    Interesting info., thanks.

- Show quoted text -

EL

What's left to sim?

by EL » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:43:09

When will sim go from polygons/surface to solid modling?

Probably when we all going to be able to buy a home PC not running copper
cpu.

EL



> >I mean issues like tires, drafting, variable weather,
> > better FF and AI, etc., and not new types of cars or
> > series necessarily.  In other words what kinds of stuff
> > still bears to be improved upon (or even invented),
> > and what has been pretty much optimized?  What will
> > we see 5-10 years down the road? [Pun kind of
> > intended...]

> The whole simracing world is slowly closing the gap between their physics
> and graphical engine.  The transition is long, and it'll take a while.
> Around 10 years (makes sense).  Someday everything on screen, will be a
real
> entity and not be a bunch of polygons together, with a hidden set of
> parameters for the physics engine to take in consideration.

> The oil a car will let on the track, will run down it if it's banked.  A
> fence will be a fence, not just a transparent polygon with a texture on
it.
> It'll be deformable.  Same goes for any part of a car.  They will become
> more and more complex.

> The only thing I hate of the whole thing, is the lack of cooperation, or
> open-standardness between companies.  Heck, FIVE years ago a company like
> Motorsims created the most incredible tracks I've ever seen.  Not even
today
> companies have devoted that much attention to them.  All that work is
> wasted.  Developpers spend TONS of money recreated existing tracks.  How
> many ***ing version of Laguna exist?  Now if Laguna Seca would create
their
> own perfect model and sell it to companies, it would always be perfect.
Or
> perhaps a company that would sell track information to other developpers.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Greg Campbel

What's left to sim?

by Greg Campbel » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:30:15


> Papy...gone.

But http://first-racing.net/ is not!  Word is that these guys (Kaemmer
and other ex-pappy dudes) are working on a Champcar sim, essentially
ICR3.  :)

-Greg

Charli

What's left to sim?

by Charli » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:47:34


>     Not that it's to do with the guts of sims themselves, but the next big
> step for me will be when you have a headset like the Track-IR but the
> headset will have 3D sound in the ears and a pair of small monitors over
> each eye - now that will be total immersion for all computer games! :) The
> peripheral vision problem will be a thing of the past!

I'd love to see it, but I wonder if anyone's dealt with the depth of
field (visual focus) issues yet, or if they can be dealt with...

Charlie

Mar

What's left to sim?

by Mar » Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:52:20



> > I think rFactor will improve a lot on those four.

> Hmmm, tracks can't be "improved" over REAL sims when they are fantasy
> tracks.  They can't even match up to Motorsims' tracks back 5 years ago or
> what Papy does in terms of polygonal smoothness anyway.  And considering
> it's semi-serious nature (similar to LFS), the physics are bound to be
> degraded.

Hmmm, not sure I follow here, Frank.  What is it about rFactor's
fantasy test track that makes you think the potential for quality
recreations of real facilities is in doubt?  In terms of PC sims, the
graphics, IMNSHO, are a marked step up from anything else I've seen.
Certainly makes the Papy efforts look almost 2 years out of date...
Dynamic time-of-day effects are stunning and really add to the
immersion factor.  Far better than, say, Papy's perma-dusk "night"
races.

I would also ask where you get the idea that this is "semi-serious"?
Papy had a fantastic run of form and were for their day unbeatable.
Nothing felt as convincing to drive for me.  Until now.

RBR and rFactor give me the sort of grin I haven't experienced since
GPL first came out all those years ago...

The king is dead, etc.

Byron Forbe

What's left to sim?

by Byron Forbe » Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:21:02


    Too easy - just a random answer generator! :)



> > I mean issues like tires, drafting, variable weather,
> > better FF and AI, etc., and not new types of cars or
> > series necessarily.  In other words what kinds of stuff
> > still bears to be improved upon (or even invented),
> > and what has been pretty much optimized?  What will
> > we see 5-10 years down the road? [Pun kind of
> > intended...]

> > When I watch a NASCAR telecast I get the impression
> > that a lot more is going on than there is in either of our
> > NASCAR titles, as teams feverishly try to tweak the car
> > back to optimum during a race. [Not that you'll get a
> > lot of this technical info from the announcers, just a
> > bunch of stuff like "Gordon is tight in the middle of the
> > turn, loose on exit"...].

> >         John DiFool

Byron Forbe

What's left to sim?

by Byron Forbe » Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:22:44



> >     Not that it's to do with the guts of sims themselves, but the next
big
> > step for me will be when you have a headset like the Track-IR but the
> > headset will have 3D sound in the ears and a pair of small monitors over
> > each eye - now that will be total immersion for all computer games! :)
The
> > peripheral vision problem will be a thing of the past!

> I'd love to see it, but I wonder if anyone's dealt with the depth of
> field (visual focus) issues yet, or if they can be dealt with...

> Charlie

    'corse they can!
Pete

What's left to sim?

by Pete » Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:30:40



> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:10:48 -0000, Peter

> >That watchamacallit to do with being able to emulate the bumps on the
> >road.  Yeah,  I forget the name and I'm pressed for time to look it up.
> ><BG> Unfortunately, we'll need sims that run at 1000fps I'd guess.  :)

> High frequency bumps? BTW, the fps don't matter when you're talking
> physics...

> Cheers!

> Remco

Eh?  Are you saying that simulating high frequency bumps is nothing to
do with physics?  They certainly would be in my world coz they're going
to affect how the car behaves. And I thought hfb could not be reproduced
in an effective enough way because, in the time it takes to jump from 1
frame to the next, the car would have travelled too far along the track
in order to allow for hfb's to be simulated correctly.  Hence more fps
required.
--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

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