rec.autos.simulators

by **Jeroe** » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

What times do you all drive at Indianapolis? I gotta be doing something
wrong, cause I just can't catch up with the AI at 100%. This Nascar 3 racing
is getting pretty frustrating... I made a 171.xx lap once or twice but
usually I drive 167 - 169 laps. What am I doing wrong? I use the Ace setup.
I brake before the corner (whe the tarmac gets dark) and I have to change
down to 3rd gear in order to stay on the track. Speed in corners is about
140 - 155. Any tips would be appreciated. I think I'm better on tracks with
steeper corners. But I'd like to be good at all tracks. I drove this one I
don't know how much, but I just don't get better. I use a wheel. How do you
guys do it? I just don't get it.

:-(

Jeroen

by **Target** » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

178-179mph. Some get into the 181's.

I usually start to slow down at the "2" sign to get a smooth entry coming into
the turns and never drop below 161mph in the turns.
Racer X
Veteran Sim Racer
Victory Lane-
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

by **Rikanthr** » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

178.630 is my fastest lap.
Be smooth. Thats the key.
Rik Anthrax
-
-
"trust the government?? what are you, some kind of moron?"

by **Tom Pabs** » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Jeroen...

The book/manual that comes with N3 has a very good description of a "lap" at
Indy (as well as all the other tracks). You'll note....the turn speeds should
be 160 mph (and higher...depending on your setup mods and what lap # you are
on). I've seen some 181 mph avg. laps.....but all the guys I see doing those
laps....don't ever make it to the end of a race. I've run a full race at Indy
now twice in N3......the tires start to go at about 25 laps into a "tire window"
and the car pushes pretty well by around lap #35 when your right side tire "goes
yellow." Most of the 181'rs are long gone from the race by then....having
smacked the wall in either one of the short schutes!

I have turned a 182.7 mph with a qualifying setup....on a "total luck" 10-10ths
run.....inches to spare and perfect in each corner....something I would never
try to do if the "chips were down." I race at 178's (ish) backing down to
around 176.5 to 177.5 after 20 laps.....ending a "tire window" run at 174's to
175's...... I haven't finished worse than 3rd yet....so that would be a good
"window" of laps speeds to shoot for I would think. I virtually run an "ACE"
setup. It's pretty good so stick with it and don't mess with the car setups
until you get a lot more experience. Remember to practice with the "Fixed"
setups too....that will come in handy when you get into a race online and find
the races is "Fixed" setups only. You'll have an "edge" on the guys/gals who
don't practice on the fixed setups!

Good luck....don't get frustrated....N3 is not easy to run (despite all the
complaints about the non-gpl car physics)....consistent laps over long runs. Be
patient with yourself ......and don't worry about your lap speeds as much as
your consistency! When you can "repeat" laps over 10 or 20 lap sessions....all
within .5 secs of each other....then you have the "consistency" you need. The
lap speeds will get faster automatically as you gain this consistency.

Here's a little "trick" I learned in the years I raced for real in the ESCORT
Endurance Series. Practice this...it will give you an "edge" against the hot
lappers you'll run into online:

This works at just about all race tracks....even the road courses....but
a track like Indy is perfect for using this technique. I did this last night
(60 lap Indy race online)...and it worked ....not once...but twice.....so I'll
use that as the example. I was running in 5th....about a quarter lap down to
the leader...keeping an "eye" on my race position...I noticed the a car behind
me all of a sudden start gaining almost a second a lap....I had been running
around 178's (about 10 laps into the race)......so I figured this might be one
of the 181'r "hot lappers" I saw click some times like that in the practice
session. In short order, he/she was on my tail pipes.....what I did was the
following:

I moved my braking point just slightly even earlier than normal....but
stayed low on the track...thus blocking an attempted pass unless the driver was
smart enough to back off me 4 or 5 car lengths and get a run on me coming out of
T2 or T4...they couldn't pass me (hot lappers don't understand this
concept....so it's an effective means to keep them behind me). I continued this
"early braking ....staying low" for about 3 laps....just long enough to build an
adequate level of frustration in the driver behind....but not enough that
he'd/she'd over react and take me out under braking. What I did do is establish
my braking point....in their minds! Ok...they are now "setup" for the trick.
On the next "entry"......I moved back to my normal braking spot....and bobbled
(intentionally) slightly....staying kind of "high" in the turn.....did it again
on the next turn (at the end of a long straight). This gave the driver behind
me an "idea" that they could try to outbrake me into the turn if I kept this up.
On the next entry....I could tell this was what they were going to try....they
closed up on my bumper...then moved low before we got to the braking zone (that
was "telegraphing" their intentions....another mistake made by rookie
"hotlappers"...but that's another "story"). What I did was move my braking
point....this time......way down track (deeper)! Now, keep in mind this
"rookie" behind me has been using my car as his/her braking point marker for the
last 3 or 4 laps....so I have them watching me as to when to brake.....not doing
what they are supposed to be doing and ignoring me and braking at their own
markers! When I finally did hit my brakes....it was hard and I stayed way high.
As the car behind me went underneath (probably laughing at how easy it was to
pass me).....they didn't realize what I'd done to them probably until they were
at the apex of the turn.....going about 25 mph too fast! "Trapped".....this
person was now "trapped" into my trick! They smacked the wall in the short
shoot.....big time! End of race for them....a couple "chuckles" from me...and I
went on my way to a second place finish.

Jeroen.....if you can learn to race "smart"......always aware of the current
race situation.....who is in front and behind you....what lap you are on (and
what percentage of the fuel/tire window you are in), constantly monitoring your
own lap speeds and keeping them within your race plan (what speeds to turn at
the different points of the fuel/tire window...so you don't crash trying to turn
a fast lap and worn tires).....thinking in advance, "What would I do if a yellow
came out right now?" "What will I do on the next pit stop if we go green all
the way?" .....these things are preparing your mind so you can make good
decisions when these things actually happen during a race...........these are
the kinds of things that will put you "on the podium" a lot more often than
trying to be one of the "fast guys!"

Did you ever see someone get a "trophy" for having the fastest lap? Nope...they
give those out to the leaders at the end of the race!

I hope this makes some sense to you?

Regards,

Tom Pabst

by **Jerry Moreloc** » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

You're losing way too much speed through the corners. IMO driving hard into
the corners then hitting the brakes hard is NOT the best way to make a fast
lap at Indy. I think you should be able to get through the corners without
ever getting much below 159-160. If you haven't altered the provided ACE
setup, you need to do some 4th gear tweaking right off the bat, as well. I
think this is the most fun track of all to drive.

Jerry Morelock

by **Morgan V** » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Hmm... I only started running Indy seriously today and I got a 179 in
qualifying and ran consistent 177s with warmed-up tires. I'm no master. Let's
get that straight right now. I believe I'm really only mediocre at N99/N3. But,
what I do is ease onto the brake just after the "3" marker, right about where
the black groove starts then I let it coast to about 7000 rpms in the middle of
the corner (turns 1 & 3). Just the turning of the wheel will help slow the car
down in time. I go into the corner at about the middle of the track and let it
go almost to the grass. Then I ease onto the throttle and slide it to the wall.
I rarely get below 160 through 1 & 3 and with warm tires can keep it around 165
when I do it right. I stay tight against the wall. Then maybe a couple hundred
feet from 2 or 4, get off the gas and get into the corner from about the middle
of the track and swing it down almost to the grass; I start cornering a little
early then pick up the throttle again and bring it back out to the wall. When
done right with warm tires I can usually keep it around 164 or so through the
middle of the corner.

And no, I wasn't burning my tires up in the process. Only very minor tire
squeal and fairly low tire temps. I really only needed to pit after my gas was
almost used up. I probably could've continued getting fairly good times up to
fifty laps or so. I use a mostly unmodified Ace setup with just the wheel lock
turned down to 6. Hope this helps.

--
-----------------------------------+----------------------------------

ICQ #: 18197225 | http://members.xoom.com/morganv/
-----------------------------------+----------------------------------

by **Jan Verschuere** » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Hmmm... I'm up to 175mph and still can't keep up with the 100% AI. Judging
from your corner speed I'd say you're scrubbing too much. Smooth is the key,
in brake application and, more importantly, in letting go and applying power
again. You can't let the nose "pop up" as taking weight off the front end
will force you to lift too much.

I think one should aim to be at 158mph in the turns at the very least (I dip
below far too often) and maybe let it touch 197mph on the straights. I know
it's possible to take it up to 200mph, but I find it takes you too deep into
the corners. This might be one for the left foot brakers.

Maybe some of the more experienced Nascar drivers can shed some light on
this issue?

Jan.
----

by **Greg Longfiel** » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00

excellent stuff Tom !

[ snip good stuff ]

by **Tim McArthu** » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00

take a close look at the easy setup. it is very stable and is capable of
179's. ACE setup can hit 181's and is a great open setup baseline. Keep
*some* rear spoiler, about 55 degrees, you spend 1 mile of the 2.5 in turns,
you need it. adjust shocks and cross weight to fit your style, but i wouldnt
mess with much more. Jay Taylor took a long time to create that ACE setup
and it was the fastest within the office. It is a keeper :-)
Speeds thru turns should be in the 165 area, and you will top out on
straights at 202. get on brakes just after the #2 brake markers at the end
of the straights, slowing to 170ish, drift the car into T1 to 162 and put
the left side tires just below the white line. (Be careful not to hold the
left sides on that line too long, it will get you loose, and dont bring it
all the way down to the rumble strips as there is no banking there and will
get you loose as well, though I do use rumble strip for T1 and T3, but not
T2 and T4). You have 3 feet of roadway between the white line and the flat
rumble strip, use it. Get back on gas at mid point of turn 1 and let it
drift to outside wall. You should get back up to 175 before you start
turning into T2. Dont use brakes for T2, just lift of gas and let the
steering bleed off speed. T2 can be taken at 165-169 if you set yourself up
for it. You HAVE to get a good run out of T2, should be at 173 or so by the
time you are back at outside wall. This gives you a great run down the back
straight.
You would assume that T1 and T3 are taken the same, but they aren't. Thought
the track is identical on both sides, you take T3 a little easier as you
will tend to push back up the track and into the wall. Dont ask why, but
thats how it turned out. I slow to 160-162 for turn 3 and get back on gas a
little later than I do in T1. Bring it to the outside wall on the chute,
prob close to 172-175 and get off the gas just before you start to turn into
T4. Let the steering bleed speed down to 164ish and mash the gas by mid
corner. T4 is more forgiving than 2 with the push so gas it. But, watch out
for the apron there, you can get loose there real easy if you touch it.
Again, you need to be in the 173 area by turn exit for a good run down the
straight.
If you hadnt noticed, I sacrifice T1 and T3 to get better runs out of T2 and
T4. They are more important turns, you need to exit them at a very fast
clip. If you are going to mess up a turn, make it T1 or T3.
Hope this helps, also... watch the replay that came with N3 of the hot-lap
at IMS. That is a clean line.

by **Jeroe** » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Well, thanks for all the info guys! I just practiced a little using your
info and after about 12 practice laps I did a short 8 laps race on
Indianapolis. First laps were awfull (where did the AI cars go :-) but after
lap 4 I drove some 175 laps. And my last was a 176. So I'm improving indeed.
The hardest things for me is too let go off the gas (or brake) soon enough.
When I first slowed down near the 2 sign I thought: this is way too early!
(That's what you get when you've played TOCA 2 for months :-) But now I see
it may seem slower but you stay faster throughout the corners. Can't do it
without screeching tyres yet, though. This Nascar racing is something
different indeed! But it's great to see improvement, little as it is, after
some good advice and some practice. Yep, that's what makes a game really
satisfying!

Jeroen

rec.autos.simulators

N3: Indianapolis times please...

N3: Indianapolis times please...

N3: Indianapolis times please...

N3: Indianapolis times please...

N3: Indianapolis times please...

N3: Indianapolis times please...

N3: Indianapolis times please...

N3: Indianapolis times please...

N3: Indianapolis times please...

N3: Indianapolis times please...

N3: Indianapolis times please...