rec.autos.simulators

Please tell me this is a hoax!!!

Benjamin Fields

Barry Clay

[snip]

The point I was trying to make was that NRO (new name) is NOT being run
over the Internet per se, it is running over Concentric's private ATM
backbone. The only "Internet" connection involved will be if you are using
an ISP other than Concentric, you'll have a hop from your ISP over to
Concentric that will use the Internet. Once the traffic reaches Concentric,
it will run purely over their private backbone. If you use Concentric for
dialup, you're not really using the Internet at all. Make sense?

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

     As you might remember, I was one of the top ten in hours spent in
Beta testing from 9-95 to 4-96. If it IS true that those credit hours
have gone up in smoke then I guess that is just one more reason (quite
possibly the one that broke the camel's back) for giving up this
exspensive ***ion. As a working man with kids (3) and a mortgage I
simply cant keep up with the costs of being competitive. My little 90
pentium still runs windows 3.11 which would have to go to make room for
the 96 version of windows 95 so I could just access TEN....then it's
another 30 bucks a month for that, plus the 30 I already spent for
internet access...I DID have my heart set on a TSW for Christmas but that
will probably go by the wayside along with the credit hours.

     Have you gotten a response from Papy on this? I have wrote several
times but havent even gotten a "get lost" message. A depressing turn of
events to be sure!

     tom
 _______________________________________________________________________

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I'm in the same position Tom.  As a matter of fact, I believe you and I did
some racing together.  I haven't been on-line much since the official beta
test period ended.  I have a feeling our hours are going to disappear and
that is a shame.  Chalk it up to another Sierra gotcha ya'.  I really don't
blame Papyrus.  I don't think they have much say in the direction Sierra is
dragging them.  Anyway, let me know if you hear anything about the hours
that we earned!

Kevin Litzenberger "Litz"

Another thing to know is this ATM backbone doesn't exist. TEN has said
they will implement the ATM backbone when they have a 'sufficient'
user base. How many users is that? 10,000? 50,000?
Until that time we're stuck going over the net, and Concentrics
connections to it's sites. I wouldn't mind subscribing to Concentric
if they dedicated servers to race and used an ATM network to make this
feasible. If you read TEN's statement right now they plan on allowing
only low latency connections and will do this by proximity of users,
not by hardware. In other words someone close to you with a good
connection. NRO will probably only allow you to race people in your
own vicinity, until they get 'sufficient' users.......

Not impressed...

Richard

    Until they TELL me I have nothing coming for time and money spent, I
will assume
they will keep their WORD.
    IF they tell me that they are going to renege on their agreement
then I will seek legal redress.
    This may be a good time to ask Papy...."Whats the deal?"

MZ=90

1. The ATM backbone that will be used initially by NRO is owned by
Concentric.  Parts of this backbone are already in place, others are being
implemented between now and June.

2. TEN is leasing low-latency bandwidth on the Concentric network to
facilitate NRO and other games that require low-latency connections.

3. ATM technology is designed precisely to supply the kind of low-latency
packet delivery that the NRO demands. It allows for the prioritization of
packets in a way that the Internet cannot currently provide.

4. Papyrus has already done some testing on the network and the connections
are as good, and often better than you get with a direct dial connection to
Hawaii.

5. The services offered by TEN in the past do not fairly represent the
level of service anticipated to be offered to NRO users.

I can't understand why people continue to lambaste Papyrus for a decision
based on facts that they are not privy to. Papyrus understands the latency
issues as well as anybody in the industry, probably better than most.
They've bet the company on NASCAR 2 and the NRO. Do you really think they
made this decision with a blindfold on? Why don't we all just wait and see
how it performs first, and then base opinion on fact, not supposition and
conjecture.

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

: Here are the facts, as I understand them:

: 1. The ATM backbone ..
: 2. TEN is leasing low-latency bandwidth ...
: 3. ATM technology is designed..
: 4. Papyrus has already done some testing..
: 5. The services offered by TEN...

: I can't understand why people continue to lambaste Papyrus for a decision
: based on facts that they are not privy to. Papyrus understands the latency
: issues as well as anybody in the industry, probably better than most.
: They've bet the company on NASCAR 2 and the NRO. Do you really think they
: made this decision with a blindfold on? Why don't we all just wait and see
: how it performs first, and then base opinion on fact, not supposition and
: conjecture.
: Dave (davids) Sparks

What you say is correct, but speaking for myself I feel a bit disappointed
that Sierra/Papyrus have now included a third party (TEN). It seems like a
direct 800 dialup service and a flat rate type of offering would have
been best and ultimately most reasonable for all. Hawaii works fine and
would not require too much modification to bring it all home. Of course
I'm assuming alot here, but it seems reasonable. With the Hawaii type
dial in, there is no reason for a local service provider (saves us $$), no
reason for the middle man (saves us more $$ and more $$ goes to Papy
where it belongs), and latency problems seemed minor. It seems it would
have been just plain simpler for everyone.

Matt

: What you say is correct, but speaking for myself I feel a bit disappointed
: that Sierra/Papyrus have now included a third party (TEN). It seems like a
: direct 800 dialup service and a flat rate type of offering would have
: been best and ultimately most reasonable for all. Hawaii works fine and
: would not require too much modification to bring it all home. Of course
: I'm assuming alot here, but it seems reasonable. With the Hawaii type
: dial in, there is no reason for a local service provider (saves us $$), no
: reason for the middle man (saves us more $$ and more $$ goes to Papy
: where it belongs), and latency problems seemed minor. It seems it would
: have been just plain simpler for everyone.

They can not do it legally.  I remember a post (from Ed Martin or
Charlie Heath) explaining that Sierra/Papyrus are barred from running a
"competing" On-Line service.  I think this had something to do with
Sierra's selling INN.  Does anyone out there remember the full story?

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

An 800 number is not going to reduce the cost at all. The cost of LD is the
cost of LD. It doesn't matter whether you're paying for the call or Papyrus
is paying for it, the rate is pretty much the same.

By switching to an ATM network, there are advantages to be had. You only
need low-latency during a race, not while sitting in a chat room. So chat
room activities can run on low priority circuits, while the race packets
run on high priority circuits. Low-latency packets probably cost about the
same as LD, while lower priority packets cost considerably less.

You can liken it to shipping a package: You can pay the overnight rate and
have it delivered by 10AM, or you can pay the 2-day rate, and it might make
it their in one day, but it could take two.

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

V/R,
Bob
Bob_Stanley
Chicken Farm Racing
NASCAR, the ultimate contact sport

[Snip]

Is it just me...  

Doesn't an 1-800 number for the most part simply change WHO is billed
for the call.
The rate isn't automaticly less.

If you were spending $100's per month calling Hawaii, then the 1-800
would send the
bill to Papyrus.  Your charge would still have to make up for thier
rate. (plus overheard
for paperwork).

The ONLY way I see an 1-800 system working is from selling adverti***t
(while in pre-race)
space to cover the phone bills.

Bill boards while on track is probably not reasonably do-able. (but then
again...)

My $0.02

Mike

        You & Dave are right.  I thought that at one time there was a deal with
the long distance carriers that the holder of the 1-800 number could pay
a flat monthly fee.  This is only true for Watts Lines which are
outbound only. (the military does have whats called DSN lines which work
like this but not available to us)I called the phone company this
morning, then called some LD carriers and long distance is long
distance. There is no longer any flat rate for incoming calls. Sorry, my
mistake. Hopefully, concentric will upgrade thier lines in the Hampton
roads area before NRO. I got all flustered when they first announced
this and pinged  TENS three servers through my ISP, Latency was not bad,
avg'd 225ms but I had an avg 25% data loss through 15, 15, & 17 hops
from my ISP to TEN's 3 servers. Like I said before, we'll just have to
wait and see if TEN/Concentric comes through.

V/R,
Bob
Bob_Stanley
Chicken Farm Racing