rec.autos.simulators

by **Aubre** » Tue, 15 Feb 2000 04:00:00

>>The most obvious thing that was missing was the complete lack of engine
>>friction. So the car handled the same in 1st gear as it did in 6th.

>What do you mean by "friction" in this case? Engine braking due to
>compression? I do recall that at least F1RS if you costed in a lower gear,
>you would decelerate more quickly. Don't recall if GP2 did this.

Yeah that's what I meant. I'm not too good with technical terms.

I'm sure I've noticed some moderate banking in certain places on modern F1
tracks. Or at least I've heard drivers describing certain corners as "off
camber". I think it adds a whole lot of character to GPL's tracks.

-A

by **Arne Marti** » Tue, 15 Feb 2000 04:00:00

> >Camber it is. Do modern (not WG!) racetracks have much camber?

> I'm sure I've noticed some moderate banking in certain places on modern F1
> tracks. Or at least I've heard drivers describing certain corners as "off
> camber". I think it adds a whole lot of character to GPL's tracks.

Off the top of my head, I can remember a few places with much camber.
Number one is the final little kink before the start/finish straight at
Interlagos, that one has lots of camber! Try checking out a head-on shot
of the grid there, and it really looks weird, and no F1 sim/game has
made it looks quite like that yet... The tight esses the infield also
has quite a lot of banking, that tight 180 corner at far side of the
new Nrburgring has quite a bit of camber, and several corners at Suzuka
does too. I'm sure there are many more corners with more or less
banking, and it really should be in any sim, as it gives much character
to the tracks!

--
Arne Martin

by **Gregor Vebl** » Tue, 15 Feb 2000 04:00:00

> >>The most obvious thing that was missing was the complete lack of engine
> >>friction. So the car handled the same in 1st gear as it did in 6th.

> >What do you mean by "friction" in this case? Engine braking due to
> >compression? I do recall that at least F1RS if you costed in a lower gear,
> >you would decelerate more quickly. Don't recall if GP2 did this.

> Yeah that's what I meant. I'm not too good with technical terms.

GP2 does model engine braking, and admirably so. Make yourself a nice
setup that is fairly neutral in high speed corners (so that you are able
to throttle steer - yes, you can do that in GP2!), and then try taking
any 1st gear hairpin close to the limit with throttle off. Guaranteed to
make you spin any time, because the engine braking doesn't leave much
grip on the rears while at the same time the decceleration is putting
the weight on the fronts.

by **MichaelJ** » Tue, 15 Feb 2000 04:00:00

online.freeserve.co.uk says...

The main thing about GP2 that got to me was the non-constant measure of
time. In other words 1 second of sim time did not equal 1 second of real
time. This made some slow corners at Monaco seem to last ages.

Also, as another poster has said, the tracks need gradient, camber and
bumps.

Thirdly the AI was a bit flawed. You could pass loads of cars going in to
hairpins (Similar to GPL).

I would assume Mr. Crammond will have fixed all these problems for GP3.

- Michael

by **Ian** » Tue, 15 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Well I'm in the UK using our crappy internet connections for online racing
nearly every day, it seems ok to me !!!

--
Ian Parker

UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl
==

by **Aubre** » Wed, 16 Feb 2000 04:00:00

I think that's because of the lack of downforce in slow corners rater than
any engine braking. A better test would be to take a slow corner in 6th
gear. You'll note that it feels pretty much the same as 1st gear, until you
get on the throttle, of course.

-A

>> >>The most obvious thing that was missing was the complete lack of engine
>> >>friction. So the car handled the same in 1st gear as it did in 6th.

>> >What do you mean by "friction" in this case? Engine braking due to
>> >compression? I do recall that at least F1RS if you costed in a lower
gear,
>> >you would decelerate more quickly. Don't recall if GP2 did this.

>> Yeah that's what I meant. I'm not too good with technical terms.

>GP2 does model engine braking, and admirably so. Make yourself a nice
>setup that is fairly neutral in high speed corners (so that you are able
>to throttle steer - yes, you can do that in GP2!), and then try taking
>any 1st gear hairpin close to the limit with throttle off. Guaranteed to
>make you spin any time, because the engine braking doesn't leave much
>grip on the rears while at the same time the decceleration is putting
>the weight on the fronts.

by **Neo** » Wed, 16 Feb 2000 04:00:00

No, that would be 'updated' and not 'new'.

by **Peter Ive** » Wed, 16 Feb 2000 04:00:00

>> >Camber it is. Do modern (not WG!) racetracks have much camber?

>> I'm sure I've noticed some moderate banking in certain places on modern F1
>> tracks. Or at least I've heard drivers describing certain corners as "off
>> camber". I think it adds a whole lot of character to GPL's tracks.

>Off the top of my head, I can remember a few places with much camber.
>Number one is the final little kink before the start/finish straight at
>Interlagos, that one has lots of camber! Try checking out a head-on shot
>of the grid there, and it really looks weird, and no F1 sim/game has
>made it looks quite like that yet... The tight esses the infield also
>has quite a lot of banking, that tight 180 corner at far side of the
>new Nrburgring has quite a bit of camber, and several corners at Suzuka
>does too. I'm sure there are many more corners with more or less
>banking, and it really should be in any sim, as it gives much character
>to the tracks!

When listening to F1 commentary here in the UK I've heard Martin Brundle
talking about off-camber corners all the time. And as for Murray's
knowledge on this area, well... erm... oh never mind! :)
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

by **MichaelJ** » Thu, 17 Feb 2000 04:00:00

As much as I love GPL and Vroc, I've got to agree with you. Most times I
log on, there are probably only 100-150 people racing total, and that
really is the only place where GPLers meet up and race. Most of the time
there's only one race with a full grid!

Compare that with the number of people online at somewhere mainstream
like the Zone:-(

- Michael

by **pjgt..** » Thu, 17 Feb 2000 04:00:00

> Hey, here in UK we have no access to ASDL or Cable modem connections.

> So for me with just our pathetic little phone-line internet
> connections,
> online racing is crap.
> That's why for me Internet support isn't important at the moment.

> So I suppose you could say I am living in 1995 as far as the crappy
> internet
> connection is concerned.

There *is* ASDL and Cable connection in the UK, but they are *not*
widely available yet. And don't forget there is also ISDN.

I have a 56k modem here and have enjoyed on-line *** for a few years
now, Motorhead was great fun, I even tried a few GP2 and F1RS races
on-line, and TOCA 2 is great on-line, and GPL is just awesome!

Try to configure your pc for games, and tweak your DUN connection. There
are plenty of good sites out there that explain how to do it.....

8-)

*Peter* - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~peterpc/home.html

by **Joel Willstei** » Fri, 18 Feb 2000 04:00:00

David,

I'm one of those online racers at WinVROC thats been there since the
beginning. I don't recall ever seeing more than 78 in the chat room and
more than 36 or so running races at any one time. So there is usually no
more than 100 or so gplers online at any one time. So even if you figure for
the differences for the various zones; Europe 100, Eastern half of the US
100, Western half of the USA 100, and then then all of the pacific zones
another 50. That's no more than 350-400 racers per day, and thats out of
40,000 units sold. Pretty poor. Nascar 3 online had more than 650 racers
when I logged on for my league race. But still out of nearly 500,000 copies
sold, that's still a small percentage.

So your point of why any producer would care about providing any type
of online racing is certainly a valid point. Better to spend your
development funds on other areas that matter to the majority.

Joel Willstein

rec.autos.simulators

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