rec.autos.simulators

by **Andre Warring** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:29:19

>N3 to N4 = New sim

>N3 to N99 = N4 to N 2002 ; which = patch/$15 at the most......

>Anything more = ripping off your base. At the least there should have been a
>50% rebate coupon for those that have N4.

>Vintook

I'd be happy to pay $50 or whatever for a good update for my favorite
sims.. Computers are so expensive, is $50 that much money to pay for
an update of your favorite sim? Look at how many hours of fun you have
with it, and how much you pay in the end for each hour of fun you
had..
In the end GPL costed my $0.01 per hour if you look at it that way :)

Andre
(please, no re-calculations, I was just trying to make a point ok? :)

by **Jon Nelso** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:53:14

So, it appears you base it on having a completely new physics engine?

> Anything other than a rehash. I already have NR1999, guess I'll get
> another. N1 to N2 was a new sim. N2 to N4 was a new sim. N4 to N2002
> isn't. Three new Nascar sims in N1, N2, N4. Three rehashes in N1999, N3,
> and N2002.

> No big deal, I accept it as part of business. Just don't say it's a
new
> sim :)

> -John

> > What constitutes a 'new' sim in your opinion?

> > > Agreed; $50 should be for a new sim, not a rehash.

> > > -John

> > > > And from what I've read in posts over at the Sierra forums. IT STILL
> > > HAPPENS
> > > > IN 2002. All the bumping physics seem to have remained, as well as a
> few
> > > of
> > > > the AI issues. They seem to have alleviated quite a few of the AI
> > problems
> > > > but unfortunately there are enouph left to classify 2002 as a patch
> and
> > > not
> > > > a new game worthy of the $50 price tag.

> > > > Vintook

> > > > > >HUH? Can I have some of that stuff you're smoking?

> > > > > >I own GPL and N4 and I find absolutely nothing similar about the
> > > driving
> > > > > >physics.

> > > > > Well, one thing I always noticed about N4 was sometimes when you
> > > > > touched tires with another car your car would go shooting up the
> track
> > > > > like, oh I don't know, an open wheel car might do.

> > > > > The other thing that bugged me about N4 (and this just may be my
> > > > > driving skills), but when another car would come down on you and
> make
> > > > > contact with your RF it would cause *your* car to spin out. Or if
> you
> > > > > got in the back of someone *your* car would spin out. When I
watch
> > > > > the real thing ususually it is the other way around.

> > > > > Brian Oster

by **John Pancoas** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:14:56

Agreed. It's still cheap entertainment.

-John

> I'd be happy to pay $50 or whatever for a good update for my favorite
> sims.. Computers are so expensive, is $50 that much money to pay for
> an update of your favorite sim? Look at how many hours of fun you have
> with it, and how much you pay in the end for each hour of fun you
> had..
> In the end GPL costed my $0.01 per hour if you look at it that way :)

> Andre
> (please, no re-calculations, I was just trying to make a point ok? :)

by **John Pancoas** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:15:14

Maybe. Why do you ask? :)

-John

> So, it appears you base it on having a completely new physics engine?

> > Anything other than a rehash. I already have NR1999, guess I'll get
> > another. N1 to N2 was a new sim. N2 to N4 was a new sim. N4 to N2002
> > isn't. Three new Nascar sims in N1, N2, N4. Three rehashes in N1999,
N3,
> > and N2002.

> > No big deal, I accept it as part of business. Just don't say it's a
> new
> > sim :)

> > -John

> > > What constitutes a 'new' sim in your opinion?

> > > > Agreed; $50 should be for a new sim, not a rehash.

> > > > -John

> > > > > And from what I've read in posts over at the Sierra forums. IT
STILL
> > > > HAPPENS
> > > > > IN 2002. All the bumping physics seem to have remained, as well as
a
> > few
> > > > of
> > > > > the AI issues. They seem to have alleviated quite a few of the AI
> > > problems
> > > > > but unfortunately there are enouph left to classify 2002 as a
patch
> > and
> > > > not
> > > > > a new game worthy of the $50 price tag.

> > > > > Vintook

message

> > > > > > >HUH? Can I have some of that stuff you're smoking?

> > > > > > >I own GPL and N4 and I find absolutely nothing similar about
the
> > > > driving
> > > > > > >physics.

> > > > > > Well, one thing I always noticed about N4 was sometimes when you
> > > > > > touched tires with another car your car would go shooting up the
> > track
> > > > > > like, oh I don't know, an open wheel car might do.

> > > > > > The other thing that bugged me about N4 (and this just may be my
> > > > > > driving skills), but when another car would come down on you and
> > make
> > > > > > contact with your RF it would cause *your* car to spin out. Or
if
> > you
> > > > > > got in the back of someone *your* car would spin out. When I
> watch
> > > > > > the real thing ususually it is the other way around.

> > > > > > Brian Oster

by **Blak** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:38:10

Now if we can just get WOMEN to be the same way!! WOOHOO!! <G>

> Agreed. It's still cheap entertainment.

> -John

> > I'd be happy to pay $50 or whatever for a good update for my favorite
> > sims.. Computers are so expensive, is $50 that much money to pay for
> > an update of your favorite sim? Look at how many hours of fun you have
> > with it, and how much you pay in the end for each hour of fun you
> > had..
> > In the end GPL costed my $0.01 per hour if you look at it that way :)

> > Andre
> > (please, no re-calculations, I was just trying to make a point ok? :)

by **Jon Nelso** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:38:24

I'm just wondering. I have seen what appears to be two sides of the fence
about whether this title is a 'new' sim or just a rehash or "What N4 should
have been" and wonder what the criteria is.

> Maybe. Why do you ask? :)

> -John

> > So, it appears you base it on having a completely new physics engine?

by **John Pancoas** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:24:59

Well, fwiw, I'd say something MAJOR needs to be added. At least N1999
added a bunch of tracks, and the CTS. With N2002, I just don't see anything
major having changed. Everything(of what I consider worthwhile) added is
just an add-on for N4 IMO, that could have been done with a patch.

Having said that "major" isn't very definitive, so what the hell. In the
end, it's irrelevant; like Andre said, $50 for the amount of entertainment
is cheap and Sierra/Papy aren't in the business to run in the red.

-John

> I'm just wondering. I have seen what appears to be two sides of the fence
> about whether this title is a 'new' sim or just a rehash or "What N4
should
> have been" and wonder what the criteria is.

> > Maybe. Why do you ask? :)

> > -John

> > > So, it appears you base it on having a completely new physics engine?

by **Vintoo** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:13:02

Wow, what a great justification.........

ATTENTION ALL GAME DEVELOPERS! $50.00 IS STILL CONSIDERED CHEAP. RAISE YOUR
RATES!

Ever played Serious Sam? That was a full game with great graphics and guess
what??? It only cost $25.00 BRAND NEW ON THE SHELF THE FIRST DAY!

Some companies do get it right, Sierra doesn't seem to be one of them. I'm
probably still gonna have to get it since my league is going to it but I
really don't like forking out $50 for a patch.

HEY SIERRA/PAPY! How about a 50% discount coupon in the box for those of us
with N4!

Vintook

> >N3 to N4 = New sim

> >N3 to N99 = N4 to N 2002 ; which = patch/$15 at the most......

> >Anything more = ripping off your base. At the least there should have
been a
> >50% rebate coupon for those that have N4.

> >Vintook

> I'd be happy to pay $50 or whatever for a good update for my favorite
> sims.. Computers are so expensive, is $50 that much money to pay for
> an update of your favorite sim? Look at how many hours of fun you have
> with it, and how much you pay in the end for each hour of fun you
> had..
> In the end GPL costed my $0.01 per hour if you look at it that way :)

> Andre
> (please, no re-calculations, I was just trying to make a point ok? :)

by **Andre Warrin** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:54:59

>Wow, what a great justification.........

Yeah :)

Wanna know something? Even if GPL2 would cost $500, I'd still buy it.
Seriously.
Stupid? People fork out much more than $500 for their computer, wheels
and pedals, why not for the sim they play for a couple of years?

And.. how many hours did you play Serious Sam before it ended up on
your shelf, never to be played again?
And how many hours of fun did you have with Nascar 4?

Difficult question where a patch ends and where a new version begins..
but don't you think that N2002 has a little bit too much new things to
be called a patch?

Andre

by **Doug Appleya** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 23:26:18

> And from what I've read in posts over at the Sierra forums. IT STILL HAPPENS
> IN 2002. All the bumping physics seem to have remained, as well as a few of
> the AI issues. They seem to have alleviated quite a few of the AI problems
> but unfortunately there are enouph left to classify 2002 as a patch and not
> a new game worthy of the $50 price tag.

With the Papy Nascar titles, there seems to be a rule that
if you are coming up behind an AI car entering a turn, and
you attempt to pass him low, he will come down and wreck
you UNLESS you hear your spotter say "Car high". I can't
think of how many times I have just barely made it and
breathed a big sigh of relief upon hearing "Car high".
The "spotter says Car high" code must be closely linked
to the "AI realizes you're there" code.

Last night in the N2002 demo, it happened to me at
Atlanta in the dogleg. I was coming up behind two
AI cars in a line. I tried to pass the rear car
low, but before I heard "Car high" he decided to
move low out of his line and pass the front AI. He hit
me, I spun, they went merrily on their way. I have
to admit in the replay it just looked like "wunnem deals."

Doug Appleyard
e-mail address above is for spammers, please use:
doug at theappleyards dot com

by **Don Jenning** » Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:15:51

"Vintook" wrote ...
| ATTENTION ALL GAME DEVELOPERS! $50.00 IS STILL CONSIDERED CHEAP. RAISE
YOUR
| RATES!
|
| Ever played Serious Sam? That was a full game with great graphics and
guess
| what??? It only cost $25.00 BRAND NEW ON THE SHELF THE FIRST DAY!

No flame here, just can't buy the logic, Deer Hunter hit the shelves at $10.
My son loved the graphics, to each his own.

It's simple economics, price times units sold equals sales income. If they
cut the price to $25, I'm guessing they wouldn't double their units sold, so
their sales income would go down. It's the same way they price sugar, and a
lot of us buy that too.

by **Eldre** » Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:23:20

writes:

Isn't the lack thereof the reason people call it GP2.5...?<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:01:51

>Now if we can just get WOMEN to be the same way!! WOOHOO!! <G>

>> Agreed. It's still cheap entertainment.

What - "cheap" or "entertaining"...? <g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Andre Warrin** » Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:41:18

>>Now if we can just get WOMEN to be the same way!! WOOHOO!! <G>

>>> Agreed. It's still cheap entertainment.

>What - "cheap" or "entertaining"...? <g>

>Eldred

Very smooth, Eldred :)

Andre

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