rec.autos.simulators

> Don't worry, you don't have long to wait.

> According to Tim Ball, Managing Director of BRD, the wheel will be
> launched in June.

> Well, its the first of July, and no new web site appeared in June, and no
> Speed 7 wheel.

> From various postings that I've seen around the net, I understand that
> Ball Racing may have got "cold feet" about sticking with a very high end
> product range. Their business case 3 years was based on a continuing
> growth in the SIM racing market, but as we are aware, we have become very
> niche, and now no serious SIMs are being offered by the mainstream
> software vendors.

> Another way to look at things is to consider that Logitech dropped
> production of the Momo Force leather wheel with steel ball-bearings due to
> lack of demand because it was "too expensive", even though it was quite
> cheap compared to the high end products available at the time.

> It might just be time to re-invent the wheel, quite literally. I'm hoping
> that a vendor will be able to come up with a Force Feedback product that
> fills the gap between the cheap *** wheels designed for consoles, and
> the aging crop of "high end" wheels that might be beautifully engineered,
> but don't support FF and require technical skills to re-wire to provide
> compatibilty with some platforms.

> In the meantime, I'm hoping that my momo force doesn't give up the ghost
> too soon.

> Tim

>> He he, fair enough.

>> I sent some feedback on my new Speed7 pedals to them, and got this
>> reply, thats all I know... Hope its this June, though...

>> "Dear Shish

>> Thank you very much for taking the time to write, it is certainly
>> encouraging to have positive feedback and constructive critisism.

>> Regarding  your point about the website. We are in the process of
>> creating a completely new site that will be fully managed and kept up
>> to date. This is an area that we have not been able to keep on top of
>> to date but we now have a new member of staff who will manage all our
>> communications. The new website is due to go up in June, to coincide
>> with the launch of the new steering.

>> On the matter of the new steering, we are hoping that we will be able
>> to offer a lower cost alternative and we are investigating this at the
>> moment. The reality is that it is the motor and electronics that are
>> the expensive bits rather than the carbon fibre! As I say, we are
>> investigating some alternative options.

>> We will keep you posted on developments and with details of the launch.

>> Best regards
>> Simon Ball
>> Managing Director"

> As Ive mentioned here on many occasions the main problem is Immersion's
> ***-hold on the entire FF market and the vague patent in which
> ANYTHING that is connected to a PC and has any kind of Force Feedback
> whether similar or not to immersions technology is patent infringement.
> Add to that absurd licensing and we have a dead end for Force Feedback

> Just another case of the lawyers ***ing the consumer in the ass....

> Mitch

>> Well, its the first of July, and no new web site appeared in June, and no
>> Speed 7 wheel.

>> From various postings that I've seen around the net, I understand that
>> Ball Racing may have got "cold feet" about sticking with a very high end
>> product range. Their business case 3 years was based on a continuing
>> growth in the SIM racing market, but as we are aware, we have become very
>> niche, and now no serious SIMs are being offered by the mainstream
>> software vendors.

>> Another way to look at things is to consider that Logitech dropped
>> production of the Momo Force leather wheel with steel ball-bearings due
>> to lack of demand because it was "too expensive", even though it was
>> quite cheap compared to the high end products available at the time.

>> It might just be time to re-invent the wheel, quite literally. I'm hoping
>> that a vendor will be able to come up with a Force Feedback product that
>> fills the gap between the cheap *** wheels designed for consoles, and
>> the aging crop of "high end" wheels that might be beautifully engineered,
>> but don't support FF and require technical skills to re-wire to provide
>> compatibilty with some platforms.

>> In the meantime, I'm hoping that my momo force doesn't give up the ghost
>> too soon.

>> Tim

>>> He he, fair enough.

>>> I sent some feedback on my new Speed7 pedals to them, and got this
>>> reply, thats all I know... Hope its this June, though...

>>> "Dear Shish

>>> Thank you very much for taking the time to write, it is certainly
>>> encouraging to have positive feedback and constructive critisism.

>>> Regarding  your point about the website. We are in the process of
>>> creating a completely new site that will be fully managed and kept up
>>> to date. This is an area that we have not been able to keep on top of
>>> to date but we now have a new member of staff who will manage all our
>>> communications. The new website is due to go up in June, to coincide
>>> with the launch of the new steering.

>>> On the matter of the new steering, we are hoping that we will be able
>>> to offer a lower cost alternative and we are investigating this at the
>>> moment. The reality is that it is the motor and electronics that are
>>> the expensive bits rather than the carbon fibre! As I say, we are
>>> investigating some alternative options.

>>> We will keep you posted on developments and with details of the launch.

>>> Best regards
>>> Simon Ball
>>> Managing Director"

> I'm not familiar with Immerision's licencing model, but surely this would
> be more of a problem for cheap wheels than expensive units?

> As it is possible to buy a FF wheel for less than $50, then the FF
> licencing component of that wheel must be small. Here we are talking
> anything from $200 to $1000+ for the BRD units, so surely licencing FF
> shouldn't be a problem. Even if the licencing is based on a percentage of
> the entire unit cost, this shouldn't matter for high end wheels, as by
> definition this end of the market isn't so price sensitive, so even
> another $50 wouldn't be a major problem.

> Tim

>> As Ive mentioned here on many occasions the main problem is Immersion's
>> ***-hold on the entire FF market and the vague patent in which
>> ANYTHING that is connected to a PC and has any kind of Force Feedback
>> whether similar or not to immersions technology is patent infringement.
>> Add to that absurd licensing and we have a dead end for Force Feedback

>> Just another case of the lawyers ***ing the consumer in the ass....

>> Mitch

>>> Well, its the first of July, and no new web site appeared in June, and
>>> no Speed 7 wheel.

>>> From various postings that I've seen around the net, I understand that
>>> Ball Racing may have got "cold feet" about sticking with a very high end
>>> product range. Their business case 3 years was based on a continuing
>>> growth in the SIM racing market, but as we are aware, we have become
>>> very niche, and now no serious SIMs are being offered by the mainstream
>>> software vendors.

>>> Another way to look at things is to consider that Logitech dropped
>>> production of the Momo Force leather wheel with steel ball-bearings due
>>> to lack of demand because it was "too expensive", even though it was
>>> quite cheap compared to the high end products available at the time.

>>> It might just be time to re-invent the wheel, quite literally. I'm
>>> hoping that a vendor will be able to come up with a Force Feedback
>>> product that fills the gap between the cheap *** wheels designed for
>>> consoles, and the aging crop of "high end" wheels that might be
>>> beautifully engineered, but don't support FF and require technical
>>> skills to re-wire to provide compatibilty with some platforms.

>>> In the meantime, I'm hoping that my momo force doesn't give up the ghost
>>> too soon.

>>> Tim

>>>> He he, fair enough.

>>>> I sent some feedback on my new Speed7 pedals to them, and got this
>>>> reply, thats all I know... Hope its this June, though...

>>>> "Dear Shish

>>>> Thank you very much for taking the time to write, it is certainly
>>>> encouraging to have positive feedback and constructive critisism.

>>>> Regarding  your point about the website. We are in the process of
>>>> creating a completely new site that will be fully managed and kept up
>>>> to date. This is an area that we have not been able to keep on top of
>>>> to date but we now have a new member of staff who will manage all our
>>>> communications. The new website is due to go up in June, to coincide
>>>> with the launch of the new steering.

>>>> On the matter of the new steering, we are hoping that we will be able
>>>> to offer a lower cost alternative and we are investigating this at the
>>>> moment. The reality is that it is the motor and electronics that are
>>>> the expensive bits rather than the carbon fibre! As I say, we are
>>>> investigating some alternative options.

>>>> We will keep you posted on developments and with details of the launch.

>>>> Best regards
>>>> Simon Ball
>>>> Managing Director"

> Very true but the current FF technology isnt all that great and they have
> zero intention of making a better consumer FF.  Right now its basically FF
> effects without being tied to software.  Without ANY competition why
> should they ever improve it?  Weve been on V2.0 for what 4 years now?  It
> took what, less than a year to go from 1.0 to 2.0 when they had
> competition. IIRC MS had its own FF tech but my memories are vague.

> Immersion isnt going to do anything to fragment their monopolistic market
> or take away from their commercial products, which from what Im told are
> pretty good but prohibitively expensive..

> Mitch

>> I'm not familiar with Immerision's licencing model, but surely this would
>> be more of a problem for cheap wheels than expensive units?

>> As it is possible to buy a FF wheel for less than $50, then the FF
>> licencing component of that wheel must be small. Here we are talking
>> anything from $200 to $1000+ for the BRD units, so surely licencing FF
>> shouldn't be a problem. Even if the licencing is based on a percentage of
>> the entire unit cost, this shouldn't matter for high end wheels, as by
>> definition this end of the market isn't so price sensitive, so even
>> another $50 wouldn't be a major problem.

>> Tim

>>> As Ive mentioned here on many occasions the main problem is Immersion's
>>> ***-hold on the entire FF market and the vague patent in which
>>> ANYTHING that is connected to a PC and has any kind of Force Feedback
>>> whether similar or not to immersions technology is patent infringement.
>>> Add to that absurd licensing and we have a dead end for Force Feedback

>>> Just another case of the lawyers ***ing the consumer in the ass....

>>> Mitch

>>>> Well, its the first of July, and no new web site appeared in June, and
>>>> no Speed 7 wheel.

>>>> From various postings that I've seen around the net, I understand that
>>>> Ball Racing may have got "cold feet" about sticking with a very high
>>>> end product range. Their business case 3 years was based on a
>>>> continuing growth in the SIM racing market, but as we are aware, we
>>>> have become very niche, and now no serious SIMs are being offered by
>>>> the mainstream software vendors.

>>>> Another way to look at things is to consider that Logitech dropped
>>>> production of the Momo Force leather wheel with steel ball-bearings due
>>>> to lack of demand because it was "too expensive", even though it was
>>>> quite cheap compared to the high end products available at the time.

>>>> It might just be time to re-invent the wheel, quite literally. I'm
>>>> hoping that a vendor will be able to come up with a Force Feedback
>>>> product that fills the gap between the cheap *** wheels designed for
>>>> consoles, and the aging crop of "high end" wheels that might be
>>>> beautifully engineered, but don't support FF and require technical
>>>> skills to re-wire to provide compatibilty with some platforms.

>>>> In the meantime, I'm hoping that my momo force doesn't give up the
>>>> ghost too soon.

>>>> Tim

>>>>> He he, fair enough.

>>>>> I sent some feedback on my new Speed7 pedals to them, and got this
>>>>> reply, thats all I know... Hope its this June, though...

>>>>> "Dear Shish

>>>>> Thank you very much for taking the time to write, it is certainly
>>>>> encouraging to have positive feedback and constructive critisism.

>>>>> Regarding  your point about the website. We are in the process of
>>>>> creating a completely new site that will be fully managed and kept up
>>>>> to date. This is an area that we have not been able to keep on top of
>>>>> to date but we now have a new member of staff who will manage all our
>>>>> communications. The new website is due to go up in June, to coincide
>>>>> with the launch of the new steering.

>>>>> On the matter of the new steering, we are hoping that we will be able
>>>>> to offer a lower cost alternative and we are investigating this at the
>>>>> moment. The reality is that it is the motor and electronics that are
>>>>> the expensive bits rather than the carbon fibre! As I say, we are
>>>>> investigating some alternative options.

>>>>> We will keep you posted on developments and with details of the
>>>>> launch.

>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> Simon Ball
>>>>> Managing Director"