rec.autos.simulators

by **David Kar** » Fri, 02 Apr 1999 04:00:00

You might also wish to try Alison's Murasata and BRM setups, both of
which--like the Coventry setups--are also very stable, especially the BRM.

DK

>>5) Start on the Coventry (Cooper) and not the Eagle, Lotus or Ferrari
>>(these cars are fast but hard to drive). Get Alison Hine's Coventry setups
>>from http://www.racesimcentral.net/~alison/gpl/ - these excellant setups
>>produce a car that behaves itself and communicates to the driver.

>Thanks Paul!

>Jeez, why didn't someone tell me this months ago? Just tried the
>Coventry (with Alison's setups) and beat my best Glen time by over a
>second within five laps.

>Forget the "you just have to practice" or "learn how to make setups"
>lines. When GPL newbies like me come in here crying for help/relief,
>just point them to the Coventry with Alison's setups. FINALLY and for
>the first time I have a stable GPL car to drive. What a difference!

>Joe

by **Tadej Krev** » Sat, 03 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Hi !

What I would suggest (add to what Paul just wrote) to novices is to keep their
normal racing line and not to move off the line. It's the overtaker's
responosiblity to get past safely, however the driver being passed should
brake a bit earlier for the corner if he sees that the overtaker made a move
on the inside (usual overtaking of backmarkers).
I had few races ruined when I thought that the guy infront would continue on
the normal racing line and when I had a great exit from a corner to pass him,
he suddenly swerwed infront of me, thinking he's doing me a favor :o)

Just keep your line and brake a bit earlier (this method makes you loose very
little time, comparing to passing in the corner or even lifting on the
straight) and
always watch your mirrors and listen to possibly approaching cars.

This way you'll always be welcome to online races. :o)

Tadej Krevh
Lotus Internet Racing
http://welcome.to/LotusRacing

Paul Jones wrote :

by Jo » Sun, 04 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>Voila! You have a well handling car that is pretty damn fast!

Thx Dave!

Joe

by **Chris Schlette** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

No way, I completely disagree. Unless you are way off the pace, every racer
should be racing hard and clean. Its up to the guy doing the passing to
make the pass no matter who he is passing. None of this "move over because
someone faster is coming through" stuff. Those being passed still have
their own race to run and I respect that. Thats all out the window if the
driver can't keep the car on the track at all because of lack of practice or
car failure, then the gentlemanly thing to do is exit the race in a safe
location.

by **Michael Barlo** » Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I have only one problem with the slower cars.. I can't pass the ones that
think they have to go from one side of the track to the other just to keep you
from passing.

ALL the other drivers I've passed I've had no real problems. I just follow
them till I see the right place to pass. whether that be three laps after I
first meet them or on the same strait. I always find the right place. What
would help would be to have the car being passed to wait till I'm in view in
front of them to blip the gas so I can pull in front sooner. All they have to
know is when there is a car next to them. If they know there is then they
should at least try to share the track.

I've been passing drivers so often lately that I don't have any true
problems. However, Because I've been passing I haven't much experience in being
passed. What I think i'll do to cure that is to start the race with a full
tank of fuel to slow me down some. Maybe I'll be lucky and have that chance to
be passed. ;-)

> Hi Tadej :)

> I agree of that "practice 200 laps" thing, but I find it easier if
> backmarkers just give room.
> I mean if they give room in coming out of the curve by moving to inside
> line, so that the one overtaking can keep his line in coming out of the
> curve(normal driving). But do NOT do this in going into the curve, because
> then it's easier to just overtake normally and in this case backmarker
> should keep his normal line, lift throttle a bit more in braking zone when
> he sees that he is overtaken(when car in the back moves to his new
> drivingline).

> >In general, the guys racing on VROC are pretty good (70% of them can run
> >sub 1:10 anyway).
> >I would advise you to nail the track before going on-line. You should know
> >the baking points
> >and the limits of the track before going online. Not many fast guys like
> >backmarkers not
> >being able to make a room for a 1 lap pass (I had few occasions when a
> >backmarker just
> >couldn't keep the car straight in Monza. Now add some warping and I was
> >stuck on his tail
> >for 2 laps until he spun into the fence and I could safely go past - and
> >that was Monza).

> >Make some 200 laps <g> around Glen and then try online again. You'll also
> >have more statisfaction
> >if you'll be fighting for positions rather then fighting your car and keep
> >looking into your mirrors for
> >faster guys coming on you... :o)

> >Tadej

--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
MikeBa on the TEN network.
Member of R.O.R. 1999
http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html

Holodyne Engineering

Mystic Music

mikeba.vcf
< 1K Download

by **Marko Viitane** » Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Hi Tadej :)

I agree of that "practice 200 laps" thing, but I find it easier if
backmarkers just give room.
I mean if they give room in coming out of the curve by moving to inside
line, so that the one overtaking can keep his line in coming out of the
curve(normal driving). But do NOT do this in going into the curve, because
then it's easier to just overtake normally and in this case backmarker
should keep his normal line, lift throttle a bit more in braking zone when
he sees that he is overtaken(when car in the back moves to his new
drivingline).

by **^Frett** » Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:00:00

My thoughts parallel with Chris; Per chance did any other sim racers watch
the IndyCar race lastnite live in Japan? Perfect example; If you're ahead or
lapping the slower car does not have to pull over {a bit unprofessional}but
if any slower car stays in a good race-line the faster car will always find the
right spot to pass! Yes; We are not professionals but don't you think these
courteous race rules would apply to sim racers also? Comments welcome!
Just IMHO... Thom j. aka ^Fretts.
"O" P.S. Not a bad race last-nite either except for the first yellow' at the
beginning!! Another example of how even the "pros" get their adrenaline
going too fast.. Happy Racin' ;o)

> No way, I completely disagree. Unless you are way off the pace, every racer
> should be racing hard and clean. Its up to the guy doing the passing to
> make the pass no matter who he is passing. None of this "move over because
> someone faster is coming through" stuff. Those being passed still have
> their own race to run and I respect that. Thats all out the window if the
> driver can't keep the car on the track at all because of lack of practice or
> car failure, then the gentlemanly thing to do is exit the race in a safe
> location.

> > I agree of that "practice 200 laps" thing, but I find it easier if
> > backmarkers just give room.
> > I mean if they give room in coming out of the curve by moving to inside
> > line, so that the one overtaking can keep his line in coming out of the
> > curve(normal driving). But do NOT do this in going into the curve, because
> > then it's easier to just overtake normally and in this case backmarker
> > should keep his normal line, lift throttle a bit more in braking zone when
> > he sees that he is overtaken(when car in the back moves to his new
> > drivingline).

n2rif1.vcf
< 1K Download

by **Marko Viitane** » Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:00:00

You just can't compare GPL to reallife races, you surely don't see people
10-20 seconds slower in reallife
and that is what makes it dangerous in GPL...

^Fretts <"know_spam> kirjoitti viestiss?

>My thoughts parallel with Chris; Per chance did any other sim racers watch
>the IndyCar race lastnite live in Japan? Perfect example; If you're ahead
or
>lapping the slower car does not have to pull over {a bit unprofessional}but
>if any slower car stays in a good race-line the faster car will always find
the
>right spot to pass! Yes; We are not professionals but don't you think these
>courteous race rules would apply to sim racers also? Comments welcome!
>Just IMHO... Thom j. aka ^Fretts.
>"O" P.S. Not a bad race last-nite either except for the first yellow' at
the
>beginning!! Another example of how even the "pros" get their adrenaline
>going too fast.. Happy Racin' ;o)

>> No way, I completely disagree. Unless you are way off the pace, every
racer
>> should be racing hard and clean. Its up to the guy doing the passing to
>> make the pass no matter who he is passing. None of this "move over
because
>> someone faster is coming through" stuff. Those being passed still have
>> their own race to run and I respect that. Thats all out the window if
the
>> driver can't keep the car on the track at all because of lack of practice
or
>> car failure, then the gentlemanly thing to do is exit the race in a safe
>> location.

>> > I agree of that "practice 200 laps" thing, but I find it easier if
>> > backmarkers just give room.
>> > I mean if they give room in coming out of the curve by moving to inside
>> > line, so that the one overtaking can keep his line in coming out of the
>> > curve(normal driving). But do NOT do this in going into the curve,
because
>> > then it's easier to just overtake normally and in this case backmarker
>> > should keep his normal line, lift throttle a bit more in braking zone
when
>> > he sees that he is overtaken(when car in the back moves to his new
>> > drivingline).

by **Marko Viitane** » Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:00:00

That's exactly what I mean here, because actual problem is just those "way
of the pace"...

by **Remco Moe** » Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Sorry Chris,

I disagree with you.

You know, there is a reason that a backmarker is to be overtaken.
Since the online races tend to be sprintraces, mostly the reason is
that the backmarker has spun a lot.

If a fast racer has to overtake such a backmarker on equal basis,
chances are the backmarker can't contol his/her car, with as result
both crash.

Why should the fast car be punished because the backmarker can't stay
on track? Why is it that if a normal fast driver who is to be
overtaken (because (s)he drives a slower car, for example), always
make room for a faster driver? Why do I've to wait so long for my
pizza? Why? Why?

Remco

>No way, I completely disagree. Unless you are way off the pace, every racer
>should be racing hard and clean. Its up to the guy doing the passing to
>make the pass no matter who he is passing. None of this "move over because
>someone faster is coming through" stuff. Those being passed still have
>their own race to run and I respect that. Thats all out the window if the
>driver can't keep the car on the track at all because of lack of practice or
>car failure, then the gentlemanly thing to do is exit the race in a safe
>location.

>> I agree of that "practice 200 laps" thing, but I find it easier if
>> backmarkers just give room.
>> I mean if they give room in coming out of the curve by moving to inside
>> line, so that the one overtaking can keep his line in coming out of the
>> curve(normal driving). But do NOT do this in going into the curve, because
>> then it's easier to just overtake normally and in this case backmarker
>> should keep his normal line, lift throttle a bit more in braking zone when
>> he sees that he is overtaken(when car in the back moves to his new
>> drivingline).

by **^Frett** » Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Marko do you watch races? What do you mean you can not compare
to "real-life"? Yes it isn't exacting but why do you think Papyrus spent
1000s of 1000s of hours re-creating this sim? To be an arcade?
Also you don't see people "10-20 seconds slower in reallife"? I think
you better watch more races!! F1 alone you can fine racing between
each laps apart! I don' understand your resoning? Sorry..
Final note: I believe danger is in "reallife" not in Gpl or any other sim!
Again comments welcome & this is still IMHO..
Cheers Thom j.

> You just can't compare GPL to reallife races, you surely don't see people
> 10-20 seconds slower in reallife
> and that is what makes it dangerous in GPL...

> ^Fretts <"know_spam> kirjoitti viestiss?

> >My thoughts parallel with Chris; Per chance did any other sim racers watch
> >the IndyCar race lastnite live in Japan? Perfect example; If you're ahead
> or
> >lapping the slower car does not have to pull over {a bit unprofessional}but
> >if any slower car stays in a good race-line the faster car will always find
> the
> >right spot to pass! Yes; We are not professionals but don't you think these
> >courteous race rules would apply to sim racers also? Comments welcome!
> >Just IMHO... Thom j. aka ^Fretts.
> >"O" P.S. Not a bad race last-nite either except for the first yellow' at
> the
> >beginning!! Another example of how even the "pros" get their adrenaline
> >going too fast.. Happy Racin' ;o)

> >> No way, I completely disagree. Unless you are way off the pace, every
> racer
> >> should be racing hard and clean. Its up to the guy doing the passing to
> >> make the pass no matter who he is passing. None of this "move over
> because
> >> someone faster is coming through" stuff. Those being passed still have
> >> their own race to run and I respect that. Thats all out the window if
> the
> >> driver can't keep the car on the track at all because of lack of practice
> or
> >> car failure, then the gentlemanly thing to do is exit the race in a safe
> >> location.

> >> > I agree of that "practice 200 laps" thing, but I find it easier if
> >> > backmarkers just give room.
> >> > I mean if they give room in coming out of the curve by moving to inside
> >> > line, so that the one overtaking can keep his line in coming out of the
> >> > curve(normal driving). But do NOT do this in going into the curve,
> because
> >> > then it's easier to just overtake normally and in this case backmarker
> >> > should keep his normal line, lift throttle a bit more in braking zone
> when
> >> > he sees that he is overtaken(when car in the back moves to his new
> >> > drivingline).

n2rif1.vcf
< 1K Download

by **Marko Viitane** » Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I really don't see drivers 10-20 seconds(as a laptime) slower in real life
racing and yes, I do watch a lot of races.
and I meant dangerous in GPL, because there are these "spinners", which make
it dangerous for leaders, because you never know who flies in front of
you...

This is true:

in Watkins Glen, with about 20 drivers, the one that avoids backmarkers
"flyers" the best, will win the race...
I have experiensed that a lot...

^Fretts <"know_spam> kirjoitti viestiss? ...

>Marko do you watch races? What do you mean you can not compare
>to "real-life"? Yes it isn't exacting but why do you think Papyrus spent
>1000s of 1000s of hours re-creating this sim? To be an arcade?
>Also you don't see people "10-20 seconds slower in reallife"? I think
>you better watch more races!! F1 alone you can fine racing between
>each laps apart! I don' understand your resoning? Sorry..
>Final note: I believe danger is in "reallife" not in Gpl or any other sim!
>Again comments welcome & this is still IMHO..
>Cheers Thom j.

>> You just can't compare GPL to reallife races, you surely don't see people
>> 10-20 seconds slower in reallife
>> and that is what makes it dangerous in GPL...

by **ymenar** » Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I have experience from the NROS and GPL online, and let me tell you that
your attitude is seriously arrogant towards slower people.

Im sorry but not everybody is born with racing talents. It takes time and
determination to become good, but even there some people just don't have the
capabilities. I mean take somebody and sit him in a F1. Even if you make
him do 1000000laps, it may be very possible that he doesn't have the same
talent as the real F1 drivers.

Does that make him bad ? Is he a "vilain"? No. Not at all. Understand that
and you will have a much better experience with your so called lappers. I
will say from NROS experience and GPL experience that 40% of the crashes
between a leader and a lapper is the leader's fault. He didn't backed off
just a little and wait until the next corner, or he had to really pass at
THAT point on the first attempt or he would had died.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **Marko Viitane** » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Let me ask you why did Senna hit Irvine in the face in Suzuka? and everyone
agreed that he deserved it...

..and btw. I don't mean here that slower people would be worse people in
anyway, I just mean like I said, they make it dangerous, not just slower,
but those who you see flying all over the place...

It's completely different when you drive leagueraces...you don't see "VROC"
there..

I think it's the other way around, he just didn't let him pass, so it had to
be done...difficult way...

Why should leader back off?

ymenard kirjoitti viestiss?

>> I really don't see drivers 10-20 seconds(as a laptime) slower in real
life
>> racing and yes, I do watch a lot of races.
>> and I meant dangerous in GPL, because there are these "spinners", which
>make
>> it dangerous for leaders, because you never know who flies in front of
>> you...

>I have experience from the NROS and GPL online, and let me tell you that
>your attitude is seriously arrogant towards slower people.

>Im sorry but not everybody is born with racing talents. It takes time and
>determination to become good, but even there some people just don't have
the
>capabilities. I mean take somebody and sit him in a F1. Even if you make
>him do 1000000laps, it may be very possible that he doesn't have the same
>talent as the real F1 drivers.

>Does that make him bad ? Is he a "vilain"? No. Not at all. Understand
that
>and you will have a much better experience with your so called lappers. I
>will say from NROS experience and GPL experience that 40% of the crashes
>between a leader and a lapper is the leader's fault. He didn't backed off
>just a little and wait until the next corner, or he had to really pass at
>THAT point on the first attempt or he would had died.

>--
>-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
>-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
>-- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
>-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
>-- May the Downforce be with you...

>"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
>how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **Greger Hut** » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:21:39 +0300, "Marko Viitanen"

>>I have experience from the NROS and GPL online, and let me tell you that
>>your attitude is seriously arrogant towards slower people.

>>Im sorry but not everybody is born with racing talents. It takes time and
>>determination to become good, but even there some people just don't have
>>the
>>capabilities. I mean take somebody and sit him in a F1. Even if you make
>>him do 1000000laps, it may be very possible that he doesn't have the same
>>talent as the real F1 drivers.

>>Does that make him bad ? Is he a "vilain"? No. Not at all. Understand
>>that
>>and you will have a much better experience with your so called lappers. I
>>will say from NROS experience and GPL experience that 40% of the crashes
>>between a leader and a lapper is the leader's fault. He didn't backed off
>>just a little and wait until the next corner, or he had to really pass at
>>THAT point on the first attempt or he would had died.
>Let me ask you why did Senna hit Irvine in the face in Suzuka? and everyone
>agreed that he deserved it...
>..and btw. I don't mean here that slower people would be worse people in
>anyway, I just mean like I said, they make it dangerous, not just slower,
>but those who you see flying all over the place...

Yeah, slower people aren't really a problem if they're consistant. If
they're spinning and weaving all over the track then it's a "little"
dangerous. Anyway, everybody needs practise before they can be fast
and more importantly consistant. But maybe some could practise offline
first and when they feel that they can do clean laps then go online
racing via VROC. At least that's what I did. I haven't raced via VROC
for ages, just been doing league races and even there accidents do
happen. Accidents just can't be avoided because it's humans were
racing with. I hope. :)

Sometimes.. ;-)

I always take it very carefully when lapping and I have much
experience in this. <G>
When I catch a backmarker I take it slowly and just let him know that
I'm going to lap him soon. I don't want to be right on his gearbox
'cos it's not a very comfortable position. If he makes a small mistake
it will probably take us both out. And it's easier for me also to make
a mistake if I'm following too closely. Usually it's 2-3 corners and
he / she lets me past very cleanly. Much better than hurrying and
taking us both out. The situation changes when the P2 is only a second
or so behind me. Then there's always the extra e***ment 'cos the P2
driver can get a little carried away and punt me out or something like
that.
As I said, I haven't races via VROC for ages but when I did I think
that it wasn't so bad.

--
Greger Huttu

rec.autos.simulators

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