rec.autos.simulators

www.computer***.com

It even goes on to say that CART Precision Racing "qualifies as the best
game of its type ever produced."

*Plonk* *Plonk*

Excuse me??..... "best game of its type ever produced" .... What the hell is
next? Sierra's Pro Pilot as "most technicaly advanced"!!!

Outlaw

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Yeah, not sure what the guy was on when he reviewed it.  CGW usually
has some honest reviews, especially in the flight sim area.  This one
was way off base.

Andy

Andy
Please use address below for all email replies

Only the best will survive in CPR!!

Later

George Sandman
Zone Name The_Sandman1
Stealth Racing #1
1997 CICC PPG Champion
1996 CICC PPG Champion
1996 NWSICT PPG Champion
1996 FRL PPG Champion

I do have allot of experience with CPR and these glowing reviews
are just false. What I think it boils down to is this. If you have never
played an autosim before and are otherwise unknowledgable  about
this genere, CPR is very likely to blow you away. The fact that most of
the glowing reviews do not even come close to mentioning the faults
with the AI, I think proves this out. I got into an email thing with the
reviewer
and his editor from PCGAMES who gave a similar positive review. This
reviewer was a real racecar driver and still was clueless with regards to
CPR's problems. He told me his positive review was based on the
upcoming patch. However this fact was not mentioned in the review.
When I asked about CPR's poor AI, the response was that in his
opinion as a race car driver the AI in CPR was not that bad. What a
total pile of crap! I also think it proves out that just because you are
a real racecar driver does not mean that you know about computer
car simulations. Another point of proof is the nutty things supposed
real drivers claim about the F1RS driving model. Alison is the only
one who seems to have it together :-)

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:07:13 -0800, "George Sandman"

In any case, I tried for many hours to tweak CPR and try to enjoy it,
and I got to be pretty damn quick during that time. You know what? No
matter how fast I got it made absolutely no difference to the AI, the
poor handling, the graphical glitches and pauses, the strange brake
balance, the frame-rate, the....you get the idea.

Cheers!
John

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:07:13 -0800, "George Sandman"

Now, since the patch I've gotten much improved frame rates with
spikes near 50 fps WITHOUT the***pit.  When I turn the***pit on,
which is a must for me, my framerate is horrible, usually in the low
to mid twenties indicated, but it seems much slower.  Now, F1RS,
there's a sim--the understeer model is incredible, but unfortunately
it still has the same crappy oversteer recovery mode as GP2, where you
can simply put down the brake pedal to catch your spin much of the
time.  I don't know about F1 cars of course, but in my street car
(rear wheel drive), putting the brake down does not correct an
oversteer condition.

So anyway, I think that CPR is simply missing some spit and polish,
and I'm looking forward to CPR:2, if there ever is one.  

Clark
1997 MIRacing Enduro 24 Champion (co-driver)
(had to put something down here after that trophy wall you posted)

If good lap times says anything about the quality of a sim, you're
right!
I guess they have competitions with Psygnosis "Arcade" F1 too, still
it's
a terrible racing sim...

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

ok got to add:

1997 MIRacing Enduro 24 Pole
and all the other races and stuff.

and we both get the Team championship for the year, well after the 24 hr
race in Feb but who can catch us?

But see you know how fast and consistant I am or was in ICR2 right? I am
finding it real hard to even try to run ICR2. I am just having to much fun
with CPR. Btw with the graphics I have on I am running 20 -22 fps and am
having no problem. and as for the colors you can adjust the track and
objects brightness.

I know there is alot of things that still need to be fixed in CPR, but have
you seen the checklist that you can fill out on the Apex site for the NEXT
PATCH!!!

I got tired of the offline league stuff and was spending hundreds of dollars
a month modem racing ICR2.

Now I plan on running the Enduro Races in ICR2 but dont have any plans to
run any ICR2 leagues. Who wants to race stupid AI. I know exactly where I
can pass the AI in ICR2 at any moment on any track. what fun that is!! at
least I am racing humans that are very unpredictable and, stupid on
occasions but at least they are human!

One thing  I hated in ICR2  when I first started driving it, was I would try
to drive it like you should drive a real race car, and found out fast that
you dont ever ease into the throttle or brakes. You do alot of slamming the
gas and brakes to be fast. What is realistic about that?

Clark, you have seen My 1:36.422 lap at Elkhart. It is a flawless lap except
for getting the tires off at the exit of turn 1. Now try getting your tires
off on the grass and stay in the gas in CPR and you will get dizzy real
fast!

Now lets look at Long Beach.  I am running mid 50's with the new patch in
Pro mode. I can oversteer or understeer the car at will! and if you dont
take care of your tires you cannot get them to last very long at all. So far
I am pushing it just alittle to hard and can only get 40 laps or so on a
set.  Why dont you come to the zone this Sunday and watch me win Long Beach
:)

You know Clark, I have been a racing fanatic for many years and dont miss
many races at all. I know, on alot of the tracks where the drivers brake,
accelerate or have to baby it, and where they dont. In CPR you can do the
same as the CART drivers do.

So I will keep winning at CPR untill some of you guys accept the challenge
and come put 110% of you concentration and abilities on the line to run fast
here. This is no piece of cake, unless you use the older ver and use Rain
tires, then it will feel like ICR2.

Now you say F1RS now there is a Sim? Well I havent tried it yet, so I am not
bashing it, but all the stuff I see here in RAS tells me that I wont like it
a bit. No sensation of speed. hey, that sounds like GP2 when it would come
down to a crawl when you got near traffic. Boy it is sure easy to be on the
perfect line when there is no speed sensation. Now this is just one of the
things I have read here. I have since stopped reading any of the F1RS stuff
and I will just try for myself when it is on the shelfs here.

Well Enough of this, I am gonna go put my driving shoes on and run a few
more practice sessions at Long Beach.  Hey, ya know there was some guy in
the zone the other day with the name Little Al, hmmm, you think?  I dont
know but I tell you if they come here I'll be ready!

Later
fellow Gulf/JAG Team Member
George Sandman

btw,  lets do alot of gas and brake slamming in ICR2 and tear em up in the
24hr Race at Sears Point next month.

Frame rate is fine here on my 233 and with a Screaming 3d card at that!

As for the AI they all suck in all sims I have tried so I am used to stupid
AI. Try Humans its more of a challenge!

The one Point I would agree with is the brake balance, and that took a
little time to get used to but If you dont slam it to the floor like you are
used to it is drivable.

Its obvious that you havent seen the checklist that we can use to suggest
the thinks that we want fixed in the 2nd patch,

Isnt that F1RS (Really Sucks)  oh, sorry I am starting to sound like Byron.
Talking shit about something I havent tried :)

Isnt that F1RS on its 5th patch already? whats up with that?  after 5
patches they havent got it right yet. Boy, they should be glad that
Microsoft didnt put that out, cause you guys would have a field day with
that one!!

George

: I don't have much experience with CART, having only played the demo.  I do
: still have a subscription to CGW.  I will note that Gordon Goble usually
: reviews auto sims.  The net review is by Scott May.  I've seen the name

        I noticed this also.  Gordon Goble has been a favorite reviewer
of mine since he covered Indy 500 way back when.  It puzzles me as to why
he was given NFS2SE, SODA, and TD4 to review when there was much bigger
fish to fry.  
        Does anyone know if he's done an online review of CPR?

Martin

I am running CPR with a TSW on a iP225-MMX and with a full install and
through an Orchid Righteous 3dFX. The frame rate is awful and there
are definite pauses. If I can run GP2 smoothly I would expect a
program which benefits from my 3dFX to do so also.

Strange that. I've never found another sim where the AI can't complete
a lap of an oval without spinning or crashing. I guess there must be
levels of "suckiness", with GP2 or ICR2 being, oh, say, a small peck
on the cheek, and CPR being a eezy glide turbo-suction industrial
strength vacuum cleaner.

The "try humans" is a good idea though - I'll head for NROS where I
can race 20+ people and have something beyond endless pick-up races.

The only way it is drivable is by hacking the garage to set the
balance further to the rear. In a real car the balance is around 60%
front or more (due to the weight transferring forward under braking).
CPR requires brake balance to be only 30-40% rearward to have all four
wheels locking simultaneously. Looks like the CPR cars have somehow
managed to avoid weight transfer under braking.

It's even more obvious that you are incapable of making such a
judgement, since I have not only seen the checklist but filled it in
and sent off my suggestions.

There's a difference between fixing a broken tail-light and a complete
engine rebuild. F1RS has had _one_ of the former while CPR's attempt
at the latter made no inroads at all toward improving the primary
areas of concern.

If this is a "bash Microsoft" thing then please explain to me why I
praised Monster Truck Madness so much and would crawl over broken
glass with my fly unzipped to rescue my copy of Excel 97? Such
comments cheapen any discussion and change rational debate into
slanging matches.

Cheers!
John

Hi John,
           I think what you mention here is a basic problem. I have a STB
Velocity AGP and with all the details on even at a place like Vancouver I
get 30+ fps Could it be due to CPR not being written for 3dfx but patched
to it? Where the opposite was true for F1rs being written for 3dfx and
patched to D3D where I never had great graphics and things like the tunnel
at Monaco is pitch black.

This AI thing too. Again Using Vancouver as an example I use Pro settings
have great competitions with the AI. Then to see about all this spinning
crashing stuff. I stopped my car right on the race line under the covered
section of track. Switching to an outside view I waited for the pack to
come around none hit me all went around hmmm. Ok next test I turn my car
sideways in the same spot leaving barely enough room to get around front or
back end of my car same results, they swerve and go around. Now I am not
telling you this to dispute what you said as I hardly raced the AI in pre
patched versions. But I thought perhaps you might like to retry it now if
you still have it. With the new patch and a good set up who knows.

This too I used to hack the garage file to go to 35% but since finding that
to submit fast laps no garage hacking is allowed I have tried some of the
Pro set-ups available now from guys like Jim & Trev and find no need to.

Glad you did as there is always room for constructive input.

Sorry I have to disagree F1 has lots of problems.It may be due to what I
said about D3D and 3dfx. But I didn't come here and bash it I just gave it
to someone who wanted to try it. I can make a list of stuff and I have a
feeling you would agree with most of it but whats the point? Ubi will as MS
will patch their products or suffer some loss.
 Cya, Mike