Actually it's not a theory, the two most common choices that sim
designers make are either reduce grip or reduce horsepower.
Get F1 2000 or SCGT. You can adjust the car physics files to give
yourself all the grip you want. You might be disapointed , as
more grip != more fun, or even more realistic.
Tom
You know, I've had this idea for a g-force race-car simulator.
There's obviously no way (that we know of yet) to simulate the
real forces involved in racing a real car, but I think you
could get a good approximation by building a small roll-cage
with a seat, pedals, wheel, and shifter, then making it so
that the whole thing can rock forward and backward to simulate
accellerating and braking, and also rock side-to-side to
simulate the lateral g-forces you get when going around a turn.
Add force-feedback to the wheel and pedals, and something to
generate vibrations from the engine and various road
conditions, and I think you could have a simulator that would
impress even real race-car drivers.
You could then mount some kind of projection screen on the
front that would move with the car, or even better, come up
with some kind of head-mounted display.
Rainer Weitz
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
They use motion base simulators with multiple monitors,
force feedback, etc. for mutliple cars in the same NASCAR race.
It's fun, and a great experience.
- Matt
> You know, I've had this idea for a g-force race-car simulator.
> There's obviously no way (that we know of yet) to simulate the
> real forces involved in racing a real car, but I think you
> could get a good approximation by building a small roll-cage
> with a seat, pedals, wheel, and shifter, then making it so
> that the whole thing can rock forward and backward to simulate
> accellerating and braking, and also rock side-to-side to
> simulate the lateral g-forces you get when going around a turn.
> Add force-feedback to the wheel and pedals, and something to
> generate vibrations from the engine and various road
> conditions, and I think you could have a simulator that would
> impress even real race-car drivers.
> You could then mount some kind of projection screen on the
> front that would move with the car, or even better, come up
> with some kind of head-mounted display.
> Rainer Weitz
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Matt -- Thanks for the plug, saved me the typing!!
SMS does use pretty realistic tire data.
-- Doug Milliken
ps. looks like you skipped ahead one day...
> They use motion base simulators with multiple monitors,
> force feedback, etc. for mutliple cars in the same NASCAR race.
> It's fun, and a great experience.
> - Matt
> > >I think the frustrating thing is just that -- that there
> > > is no g-force simulation so unless it's a good sim (gpl :-) ),
> > > or until we get g-force simulation, it's hard to tell just
> > > when you're going to lose grip.
> > You know, I've had this idea for a g-force race-car simulator.
> > There's obviously no way (that we know of yet) to simulate the
> > real forces involved in racing a real car, but I think you
> > could get a good approximation by building a small roll-cage
> > with a seat, pedals, wheel, and shifter, then making it so
> > that the whole thing can rock forward and backward to simulate
> > accellerating and braking, and also rock side-to-side to
> > simulate the lateral g-forces you get when going around a turn.
> > Add force-feedback to the wheel and pedals, and something to
> > generate vibrations from the engine and various road
> > conditions, and I think you could have a simulator that would
> > impress even real race-car drivers.
> > You could then mount some kind of projection screen on the
> > front that would move with the car, or even better, come up
> > with some kind of head-mounted display.
> > Rainer Weitz
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
That looks interesting, but the nearest one to me is over 500
miles away. Besides, it doesn't look they have what I was
talking about. I think to get a realistic driving experience
you need to be able to tip the simulator up to 45 degrees, or
more.
For example: Picture a car making a sharp turn on a level road,
such that the car is experiencing 1 gee of lateral force. If you
have 1 gee downward force from gravity, and 1 gee of centripedal
force pointing horizontally, then the net force experienced by
the driver is approximately 1.4 gee's at an angle of 45 degrees
downward and to the side.
So if you're in a simulator, and you make a sharp turn to the
left, and the simulator tips 45 degrees to the right, you will
feel as if you are pulling a 1-gee turn. The force won't be
quite as strong (only 1 gee, instead of 1.4 gee's) but the
vector of force would be in right direction. When you straighten
out the wheel, the simulator would roll back up to the level
position, and you would no longer feel like you were in a turn.
In the same way, tipping forward and back would simulate the
forces involved in accelerating and braking. Tipping forward
would give you the feeling that you were slowing down, while
tipping back would give you the sensation of accelerating.
As long as the user's frame of reference (the screen) is telling
him that he is level, he will feel like he's swerving back and
forth, accellerating and braking, when he's actually sitting in
one spot, tipping back and forth, and side to side.
Rainer Weitz
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
I have thought about doing something like this myself. The thing is,
one could probably spend the same amount of money as it would take to
develop and build something like this and instead buy a real race car.
Seriously though, it would be the coolest thing since sliced bread to
have something like what you are talking about. Perhaps one could buy
a used DaytonaUSA arcade game and figure out a way to interface it with
some kind of game controller. That would at least save some of the
hardware costs.
Then all you would need is somebody to write a custom patch to your
favorite game for you... BUT, you might get "close enough" simply by
interpreting steering wheel and throttle/brake positions... I dunno.
BTW, what is the PowerBall up to this week?
> Rainer Weitz
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
I can imagine the NASCAR version of this supposed simulator - the seat
would be permanently leaning to the right...!
--
> > They use motion base simulators with multiple monitors,
> > force feedback, etc. for mutliple cars in the same NASCAR race.
> > It's fun, and a great experience.
> That looks interesting, but the nearest one to me is over 500
> miles away. Besides, it doesn't look they have what I was
> talking about. I think to get a realistic driving experience
> you need to be able to tip the simulator up to 45 degrees, or
> more.
There were other concerns with SMS also -- you have to be careful
when designing anything that will be used by the general public...
<snip>
Actually, a lot of research has been done on this and I believe
that most of it contradicts your scenerio...
The new big research simulators (DaimlerChrysler and others) have X-Y
tracks so that by moving back and forth, they can actually subject the
simulator to true linear accelerations (of a limited duration). Often this
is combined with pitch and roll (phased in cleverly) to let them maintain
some constant acceleration as well.
-- Doug
Milliken Research Associates Inc.
There was someone at a WarBirds convention (online flight sim)
a couple years ago with just a chair that tilted. Nifty gadget.
It used a small single cylinder hydraulic system, probably rather
slower acting than what SMS uses.
The ultimate might have been a NASA simulator that moved
up/down and laterally along a large wall, or the docking simulator
that (so I've heard) was hung in a dark room from an overhead
crane. The trainees were presumably ordered to ignore the extra
1 G. ;) Still, given the confusing way proximity operations
work it was probably useful.
- Matt
The problem is that the simulator has to roll quite rapidly to achieve
the necessary angle of tilt. This rotational acceleration is quite
unnatural (unless you're barrel-rolling!), and can upset the inner ear
and induce motion sickness.
- Michael Powell
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dave Ewing
--
*****************************************************
David A. Ewing
*****************************************************
At a 45 degree angle of rotation, we'll feel .707 G's laterally, if I'm not
mistaken. The only way to get 1g from a rotation-only setup is to pop us all
the way sideways to 90 degrees. Of course then, we don't have any acceleration
pushing us down in the seat now, so we'll feel like we're making a 1g turn with
no gravity.
I'd love to feel the accelerations in a racing sim as much as anybody else,
but this approach has some problems. If we're going straight ahead without
turning, then flick the wheel left and enter a 1g turn, the***pit rotates 90
degrees to the right to simulate this. Aside from having just lost gravity
entirely, what happens if we want to turn back to the right for the next 1g
corner? If it takes 2 seconds to transition from 1g left to 1g right, the
***pit will spin us from 90 degrees on our right side to 90 degrees on our
left in 2 seconds! Barf city, and way too disorienting for me to drive.
But there's got to be a way.... :-)
Todd Wasson
One more thing (sorry if it sounds like I'm flaming or picking on you, I'm
not!) Please keep in mind that when the***pit rotates to one side or
pitches, we will definately feel this. When entering the 1 g corner, we'll
feel like the car rolled 90 degrees while the sideways force built up. Maybe
some sort of electrical neurological device could cancel this rotation sense
out? :-)
Todd Wasson