rec.autos.simulators

by **Greg Campbel** » Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:44:03

> How long does it take ATItool to come up with the max core and max mem
> ?? I've had it running for 2hrs and so far other than running the same
> test and telling me "no errors for...." , I am no further ahead with
> OCing. Haven't even gotten to max mem yet. Am I being impatient or does
> it take several hours for each test?

Hum... seems it should be faster than that. OTOH, I haven't used it
much because it IS slow. (Gotta have that INSTANT gratification!) As
it searches for max core/mem, the speed being tested is displayed at the
top of the speed slider. It's greyed out, so it's easy to miss the
vaules changing.

Go ahead and do it manualy. Start 'scan for artifacts,' and bump the
core by ~5mhz. Hit 'set clock' and wait a while (5~10 seconds or so).
If no errors are reported, bump the speed again. When you start to get
errors, back off 15~20 MHz and let it run for a while. If no further
problems arise, you're probably close to where you want to be. Repeat
for the memory, but use smaller increments, since it will probably not
OC as well as the core.

Just to stay remotely on topic, let us know how much the system OC helps
your sim racing framerates. :)

-Greg

by **V \** » Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:09:40

>> How long does it take ATItool to come up with the max core and max mem
>> ?? I've had it running for 2hrs and so far other than running the same
>> test and telling me "no errors for...." , I am no further ahead with
>> OCing. Haven't even gotten to max mem yet. Am I being impatient or
>> does it take several hours for each test?

> Hum... seems it should be faster than that. OTOH, I haven't used it
> much because it IS slow. (Gotta have that INSTANT gratification!) As
> it searches for max core/mem, the speed being tested is displayed at the
> top of the speed slider. It's greyed out, so it's easy to miss the
> vaules changing.

> Go ahead and do it manualy. Start 'scan for artifacts,' and bump the
> core by ~5mhz. Hit 'set clock' and wait a while (5~10 seconds or so).
> If no errors are reported, bump the speed again. When you start to get
> errors, back off 15~20 MHz and let it run for a while. If no further
> problems arise, you're probably close to where you want to be. Repeat
> for the memory, but use smaller increments, since it will probably not
> OC as well as the core.

> Just to stay remotely on topic, let us know how much the system OC helps
> your sim racing framerates. :)

> -Greg

I'll be sure to give it a good test tomorrow. Too late tonight, and
after trying to bump up the clock settings, it seems once I hit the 2nd
step, I get artifacts and errors. I am lucky to run at 378 core 357.75
mem. Seems rather low for this card doesn't it ?? Seems like it's not
worth the effort to even bother. Are there any diag programs to test to
make sure the card is entirely healthy to start with? I get no game
freezes, no artifacts or anything unusual in games, so it seems fine,
but I kind of expected what was a high end card to OC better than 2
steps.....but that is also inexperience talking. This is my first OC
adventure. Will do a night back of grid test for FPS tomorrow.......if
the bug doesn't grab me tonight. thanks again guys

Verne

by **V \** » Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:46:43

>>I don't want to add another layer of complication, but you can also run
>>a program called memtest86+. http://www.memtest.org
>>You burn it to make a bootable CD, and it runs immediately upon computer
>>startup. It's similar to P95, but focuses largely on finding memory
>>errors. Since it runs before windoze starts up, you eliminate the
>>(fairly slim) risk of corrupting your installed software.

> I agree with everything that's been said up until this point, unless you
> mess around with ridiculous OC'ing numbers and voltage settings, the
> risk of hardware failure is slim to none, however the chances of a
> software failure is not to be overlooked

> While trying to OC my AMD64 I corrupted the Windows installation twice,
> now I've been around the block a few times so I use a spare HD with a
> basic Windows installation for most of my testing so that didn't bother
> me much but I feel a word of warning on this issue is in place, as with
> most things, back up important data before messing about with your PC

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> "When two or more people are gathered together in my name,
> they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..."

> --Our Lord John Cleese--

So then Uncle Goy, are you saying that if I set my BIOS to 182 instead
of original setting and Prime95 reports an error with no warning(s),
then I should be fine running it at that? I have not touched voltage
settings, I know nothing of elctrical anything.....other than it doesn't
go into the shower with me. My Sempron 2800+ goes from 2000mhz, to 2259
when setting the BIOS to 182. Somehow when purchasing RAM over the past
year, I now have one stick of PC3200 and one stick of PC2700. I noticed
while in the BIOS that my ram was set to 266, but they are 400 and 333 I
believe, should I set my BIOS for the ram to 333 or auto to get full ram
capacity?! Will this make a difference without even overclocking the
system? So many questions.....but such is a learning process.

Verne

by **Goy Larse** » Fri, 07 Oct 2005 05:42:38

> So then Uncle Goy, are you saying that if I set my BIOS to 182 instead
> of original setting and Prime95 reports an error with no warning(s),
> then I should be fine running it at that? I have not touched voltage
> settings, I know nothing of elctrical anything.....other than it doesn't
> go into the shower with me. My Sempron 2800+ goes from 2000mhz, to 2259
> when setting the BIOS to 182. Somehow when purchasing RAM over the past
> year, I now have one stick of PC3200 and one stick of PC2700. I noticed
> while in the BIOS that my ram was set to 266, but they are 400 and 333 I
> believe, should I set my BIOS for the ram to 333 or auto to get full ram
> capacity?! Will this make a difference without even overclocking the
> system? So many questions.....but such is a learning process.

Ideally you'd want to run the memory as fast as possible, however the
AMDs have always managed to do with less than Intel's CPUs so it's not
as critical to run your memory at Warp speed, but if you can get your
memory to run at 333 it would be preferable

Overall you're OC'ing within reason and not messing about with voltage
settings, everything points to you being well on the safe side, but
before running your PC OC'ed at any length of time you really should
backup important files, you always should of course, but now you'll be
running your PC out of spec so it's even more important

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"When two or more people are gathered together in my name,
they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..."

--Our Lord John Cleese--

by **V \** » Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:25:40

> I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile,
> what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively
> to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while
> waiting for GTL ??

> AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g)
> 1024m ram
> ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x)
> MSI KT4AV mobo

> Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than
> anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another
> 512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a
> difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas??

Ok, for anybody who has been reading this, I now have my system running
as such:

AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) running at 2.23g
9800pro bearly OC for some reason, just keeps hitting artifacts.
(384.75/357.75)
1024g ram

Both ram and CPU run together through my BIOS. So both are OC to 366mhz.

I do see a difference in both day AND night using GTL as a test bed. The
back of grid night at GTL is a noticeable improvement over non-OC
settings. Of course, YMMV compared to mine. Thanks to Greg and Uncle
Goy for helping me out.

Keep the black stuff beneath you.

V

by **V \** » Fri, 07 Oct 2005 08:19:34

> Hold onto that $64 and save it till ya have enough for either a better card.
> http://search.ebay.com/6800-gt_W0QQftsZ0 or an XP3200+ cpu.

> I'd throw an Athlon XP 3200+ at that MSI KT4AV for $120 (w/bios upg)
> (www.pricewatch.com) and OC as much as possible (maybe just get a good fan
> h/s as well to help oc'ing). Or better yet a dual core 64 mobo/cpu combo but
> thats far beyond a $64 budget ;)

> Nothing beats cpu cycles and that sempron is a budget cpu so really the best
> investment/performance ratio so in your case is the XP3200+ is your best
> bet. 9800/128 isnt that much slower than an x800/256 at lower res's and you
> should also OC it amap.

> You won't see hardly any difference going to 2gigs of ram. You could make
> up the performance difference by tweaking XP following black vipers
> excellent guide.

> Mitch

I was just doing a little looking at my board. IT says it supports 3000+
"and higher"........hmmmmmm, what might "and higher" actually pertain
to?? Before I source out an XP3200+, I want to be damned certain it
will work on the board. The closest I can get to a 3G CPU without
redoing mobo and chip, the better. I tried searching the Mobo/3200+
combo on google to no avail.......or I am just not entering my search
wording properly. By chance, does a 64bit board run the same memory I
presently have on a NON 64bit board?? Initial cost has to be minimal,
and I am thinking a new board and chip will be rather costly if I jump
to 64bit right now. Thanks for your help.......and patience.

Verne

by **Mitch_** » Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:05:48

Go to this page
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.p...
and then look at the BIOS upgrades. The latest fix is for the XP3200+. You
may need to flash your mobo. Be sure to check which version of the mobo you
have also.

Double check yourself though, no warranty expressed or written ;)

Mitch

>> Hold onto that $64 and save it till ya have enough for either a better
>> card. http://search.ebay.com/6800-gt_W0QQftsZ0 or an XP3200+ cpu.

>> I'd throw an Athlon XP 3200+ at that MSI KT4AV for $120 (w/bios upg)
>> (www.pricewatch.com) and OC as much as possible (maybe just get a good
>> fan h/s as well to help oc'ing). Or better yet a dual core 64 mobo/cpu
>> combo but thats far beyond a $64 budget ;)

>> Nothing beats cpu cycles and that sempron is a budget cpu so really the
>> best investment/performance ratio so in your case is the XP3200+ is your
>> best bet. 9800/128 isnt that much slower than an x800/256 at lower res's
>> and you should also OC it amap.

>> You won't see hardly any difference going to 2gigs of ram. You could
>> make up the performance difference by tweaking XP following black vipers
>> excellent guide.

>> Mitch

> I was just doing a little looking at my board. IT says it supports 3000+
> "and higher"........hmmmmmm, what might "and higher" actually pertain to??
> Before I source out an XP3200+, I want to be damned certain it will work
> on the board. The closest I can get to a 3G CPU without redoing mobo and
> chip, the better. I tried searching the Mobo/3200+ combo on google to no
> avail.......or I am just not entering my search wording properly. By
> chance, does a 64bit board run the same memory I presently have on a NON
> 64bit board?? Initial cost has to be minimal, and I am thinking a new
> board and chip will be rather costly if I jump to 64bit right now.
> Thanks for your help.......and patience.

> Verne

by **V \** » Fri, 07 Oct 2005 11:17:09

> Go to this page
> http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.p...
> and then look at the BIOS upgrades. The latest fix is for the XP3200+. You
> may need to flash your mobo. Be sure to check which version of the mobo you
> have also.

> Double check yourself though, no warranty expressed or written ;)

> Mitch

Sadly Mitch, my chipset falls into the "CANNOT" field. This kind of
sucks now. Makes me wonder if maybe I should just grab a 64bit board and
chip now.......as long as my current ram will run on a 64bit board, I
may go that route. JUst going to see about "putting one together" at
my local haunt. Online price list. Thanks though, appreciated

I'll just live with what I have until GTL comes out. The OCing seems to
help pick up a bit of slack though. SO it's "bearable" hehehe

by **Greg Campbel** » Fri, 07 Oct 2005 11:46:34

> 9800pro barely OC for some reason, just keeps hitting artifacts.
> (384.75/357.75)

Try underclocking the vidcard memory (20~40 MHz or so) and then try for
more core speed.

-Greg

by **V \** » Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:41:57

>> 9800pro barely OC for some reason, just keeps hitting artifacts.
>> (384.75/357.75)

> Try underclocking the vidcard memory (20~40 MHz or so) and then try for
> more core speed.

> -Greg

Just tried it Greg, I get artifacts right away if I move above 384.75
core. I'd have thought this card would have been more able than that.
Maybe my system overall just can't handle a vid card OCed. Is there
maybe another program than ATItool that does the same thing, maybe I
have a bad tweaking tool. I know nothing other than the obvious at
this, thanks again. Would having my BIOS set to aperture of 256 be a
problem? Fastwrite off in BIOS as well.

Verne

by **Goy Larse** » Sat, 08 Oct 2005 03:08:23

> >> 9800pro barely OC for some reason, just keeps hitting artifacts.
> >> (384.75/357.75)

> > Try underclocking the vidcard memory (20~40 MHz or so) and then try for
> > more core speed.

> > -Greg

> Just tried it Greg, I get artifacts right away if I move above 384.75
> core. I'd have thought this card would have been more able than that.
> Maybe my system overall just can't handle a vid card OCed. Is there
> maybe another program than ATItool that does the same thing, maybe I
> have a bad tweaking tool. I know nothing other than the obvious at
> this, thanks again. Would having my BIOS set to aperture of 256 be a
> problem? Fastwrite off in BIOS as well.

As long as the tool allows you to increase core speed and memory speed
independently, then there's little else any other tool can do, sometimes
GPUs and CPUs just don't OC much

There's one thing you haven't played around with yet as far as I can
tell, and that's the memory timing, while memory speed is important for
the overall bandwidth available, once the you surpass the demands of
your system, more bandwidth is "wasted", if setting the memory speed
down to 266 doesn't affect the performance of your system running
certain comparable tests, then you'd prolly have some leeway to play
around with the timing settings CL, CAS and all that

Your average DDR memory are rated at 2.5, high end at 2.0 and cheap
stuff at 3.0, by lowering the speed from 333 to 266 you might be able to
reduce the memory timing to 2.0, and the other timings might be reduced
from 3-3-7 to 2-2-5, memory timing is more important than memory speed
once you have "enough" bandwidth

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"When two or more people are gathered together in my name,
they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..."

--Our Lord John Cleese--

by **Goy Larse** » Sat, 08 Oct 2005 03:20:53

> Sadly Mitch, my chipset falls into the "CANNOT" field. This kind of
> sucks now. Makes me wonder if maybe I should just grab a 64bit board and
> chip now.......as long as my current ram will run on a 64bit board, I
> may go that route. JUst going to see about "putting one together" at
> my local haunt. Online price list. Thanks though, appreciated

Problem with that is that you'd either have to get an AGP equipped A64
board, which will seriously limit your future upgrade path or get a
PCI-E vid card at the same time... :(

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=KT4A-V

Says it supports 3200+ here....?

What's the MS number on your card ?

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"When two or more people are gathered together in my name,
they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..."

--Our Lord John Cleese--

by **V \** » Sat, 08 Oct 2005 06:55:35

>>Sadly Mitch, my chipset falls into the "CANNOT" field. This kind of
>>sucks now. Makes me wonder if maybe I should just grab a 64bit board and
>>chip now.......as long as my current ram will run on a 64bit board, I
>>may go that route. JUst going to see about "putting one together" at
>>my local haunt. Online price list. Thanks though, appreciated

> Problem with that is that you'd either have to get an AGP equipped A64
> board, which will seriously limit your future upgrade path or get a
> PCI-E vid card at the same time... :(

>>I'll just live with what I have until GTL comes out. The OCing seems to
>>help pick up a bit of slack though. SO it's "bearable" hehehe

> http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=KT4A-V

> Says it supports 3200+ here....?

> What's the MS number on your card ?

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> "When two or more people are gathered together in my name,
> they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..."

> --Our Lord John Cleese--

My board is MS6712. It is the KT4AV-L. Has the KT400A chipset. Says up
to 3000+ and higher.............hate the "and higher" generic
terminology. Just HOW high!?!? I decided to go price an AMD64 board and
chip. Upgrading in the future is a concern, but if it gives me the
performance I am after now........then a board upgrade later next year
is not an issue. I got a good quote for an AMD64 3500+ s939 and an MSI
(I like MSI) K8T Neo2-F board. Has dual core capability for down the
road, but it has AGP8x, which I can use my good old 9800pro in the
meantime. Buying a new vid card as well as processor and board is way
beyond my spending right now. I Have plans on buidling another system
for my kids as well, so "hand me downs" are the goal with any upgrades.
So I will still need a few extra $$ to replace what I still need for my
own, hence the waiting for a BIG upgrade overall. Certain things come
first........but a board and chip, not unreasonable. My system runs
pretty good now, but I know GTL will tax it, and any new games that
happen to come out as well. PCI-E will be in my future, but not until
next year sometime. $400 for a vid card, not right now. Thanks for
the help and insight though, definitely learned some things along this
venture.

Verne

rec.autos.simulators

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